Not quite the usual .177 or .22 question!

[Ed W]

My usual pest/vermin control requires at least FAC air-rifle.

I've now got the chance to clear a few pigeons from a building which they are getting into and making a mess.

I wondered what the experienced bbs'ers found to be the best tactics/calibre etc at 12fp (or less), please?

Regards, Ed

[Farmerpalmer]

The old adage is .177 for feather, .22 for fur.

Probably because .177 would fid it easier to penetrate through the (armour) feathers of a bird.

and .22 has more weight /shock for the larger animal (rabbit).

I think pointed pellets are better for getting between the feathers of birds, but correct me if I'm wrong


... I'm sure someone will ... sigh ! ! !

[hwtyger]

at <12Ft I'd say .177
FAC .22

[Ed W]

Thanks, Shaun.

Replies are s-l-o-w today!

As some shots could be inside, and not wanting to cause damage, I was wondering about .22 @10fp with flat headed pellets (Hobby?) to avoid them passing through the bird.

Alternatively, do you need .177 @ 11.5fp to bring the bird down - don't want it stuck up in the rafters etc.

Having not done it, it's all theory and I was looking for some real world answers from the bbs'ers who know.

Regards, Ed

[Gren]

Well Ed, you know I'm a big fan of the pink caliber, but I'd go .22 on this one. I have tried both and found a LOT more knock-down power with the .22. It's ususlly a close range situation with pigeons, so drop is not a problem.

I also think that the 22 looses more power inside the bird, so it exits (if it does) with less power, hence less damage to buildings.

Gren.

[nurek]

Hi Ed,

This thread might be of use:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....ighlight=feral

Hope this helps.

Piotr

[TheShootist]

.20 certainly does the trick on any pigeons I've shot. An excellent all round 12 ft lb hunting tool.

Tony

[R. P. McMurphy]

How about .25,aslong as you keep the range down its accurate enough and it does provide a hell of a mighty thump.

[Ed W]

Thanks, everyone.

Now where did I put that tin of Hobbys all those years ago...

Regards, Ed

[Dalua]

With apologies to Mr. Palmer....

The argument about smaller slugs penetrating better than larger (i.e. .177 = sharp, .22 = blunt) reminds me of a fallacious argument still often used re. shot sizes for shotguns.
In that case, bigger shot penetrates better because it is heavier and therefore at a given velocity has more energy. It also retains velocity, and therefore energy, better downrange. The argument that small shot is sharp, like a razor, and large shot is blunt does not hold.

My own belief is that penetration is more a function of the energy carried by the pellet, rather than the surface area over which it is distributed. The surface area of the front of the pellet, its shape and hardness, presumably comes into it somewhat if .177 and .22 slugs have the same energy, but I'm really not sure how much difference this makes.

On the whole I'd have thought that, given the range of paths a pellet might take through a bird from different points and angles of impact, the energy of the pellet at the point of impact would have more influence over whether there is an exit wound or not.
The heavier slug should retain energy better even when passing through tissue.
Other things being equal, light flat pellets presumably penetrate less well than heavy, pointed ones.

Where IS the tin of Hobbys?

Finally, are feathers really like 'armour'? If that were the case, I'd have thought the manufacturers of body armour would be producing a very different product, perhaps resembling 'Big Bird' from Sesame Street.
Seriously, though, the the reputation pigeons have for being armour-plated results, I believe, from the fact that their feathers are loose, and fly out abundantly when disturbed by inadequately placed shots.

[lance]

hi ed
your idea of hobby,s running at 10 f/p will certainly do the business at 20_30 yds, a slower moving pellet will expend
all its energy into the quarry with devastating results.
a faster moving smaller pellet will tend to drill through
taking a lot of its energy with it.

[Ed W]

Thanks again to all.

Having found the Hobbys, I've come across my old FWB sport .22 (funny what you come across!) and it used to run at about 10.75fp

Hmmm!

Watch out "Columba Palumbus" - Time's up!

Many Thanks, Ed

[stillair1]

I'm with Lance on this one, presuming that you make contact with the pigeon. and not the interior behind. Mind you they come down with zero flutter at 25ftlb when building ventilation is not a concern

[mr fixit]

just to chip in my two p(no its not a prostate problem)20 ish years ago before we paid too much attention to what calibre to use i was using a FWB sport in 22(ely wasps i think)to remove feral piggies off the outside of a grain store,3 storey,and a body hit saw a bird on the floor,just lucky?,we shot about 200 in 3 weekends,good sport and a useful job done.

[Dalua]

I'm with Mr. Fixit.

There are distinct parallels with the shot-size, load and choke debates among shotgun users. On the whole, more heat is generated than light.

Within limits established by general use, those who can put the pattern (or the pellet) on the beast succeed, and those who can't, fail.

It's good to talk, though!