Webley Patriot-a review

[Rapidnick]

Having decided not to sell this rifle I thought I would put a few thoughts down as to how nice it really is. So here goes.

The rifle: a .25 Webley Patriot with lovely bluing, open sights as well as scope rail, The stock is very bright and cheerful being a turquoise 'plasticote' finish on top of the original wood. The rifle was tuned by our very own Baz and sold to me by Gareth W-B.

Current state: Running at around 26 ft lb with H & N FTT pellets.Safety catch removed by previous owner. Trigger perfectly adequate with a smooth let-off and no creep. Accuracy is fine and cocking effort perfectly reasonable for a springer running at this sort of power.

Comparison with the Eliminator: a tricky one this. The Patriot has a VERY poor reputation out of the box. This is in spite of its obvious build quality. I don't know how much they cost when new but they sell from between £100 and £150 which is between 1/3 and 1/2 of what you would expect to pay for the Eliminator. Now as I have owned both I feel reasonably qualified to compare the two. The first thing that is obvious is the cocking effort! The Eliminator even with proper technique IS a hard rifle to cock. It is probably responsible for my bad shoulder even though I didn't use it much. Once cocked and fired however, the firing cycles are different. As with most gas ram rifles the lock time on the Eliminator-which dear reader please remember is a 'magnum' rifle with a long stroke and large swept volume-seems very short. The pellet has gone before the shooter can 'interfere' with it and so it feels like all the other gas rams I have owned-snappy and fast. My previous experience has told me to run the Eliminator below the maximum to get a sweeter smoother shooting experience so I have always run my .20 at 24 ft lb and my .22 at 26 ft lb knowing they can go higher. I haven't got that experience with the Patriot as this .25 is the only one I have ever shot BUT although it has a longer firing cycle the extra length doesn't seem to make accuracy suffer. They both seem to me to be powerful accurate air rifles BUT the Patriot is usefully easier to cock. Nothing to choose in terms of weight nor in build quality.
My conclusion is simple: what has gone wrong with the standard Patriot to make it get and keep such a poor reputation? Perhaps someone could come on this thread and tell me. In the meantime I am just pleased I decided not to sell my Patriot and hope that my shoulder will repair itself enough for me to be able to shoot it from time to time.
Thanks for reading.
Pictures below.
http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p...urrent=WP1.jpg
http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p...urrent=WP2.jpg
http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p...urrent=WP3.jpg
http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p...urrent=WP4.jpg
http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p...urrent=WP5.jpg
http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p...urrent=WP6.jpg

[micheal40]

nice post, and as for the rifle i would keep it if i only used once in a blue moon like you self, you would be hard pushed to find one as good to and for that price mate, wise decision,,,,, mike

[scimitar]

Howdo . when i bought a similar rifle some while ago . the fella i bought it off explained to me that the way to cock it with out hurting yourself . was to place the butt in the thigh . hit the barrel with your right hand to break it , holding the stock with the left . then place BOTH hands on the barrel at the top , one below the other and then bend from the waist using only the stomach muscles which are stronger than the arm muscles . i found using this method that i could shoot the rifle for ages . without getting tired or injured . hope this helps ? . scimitar . ps works sitting as well .

[Vulcanator]

I find it ironic the Patriot tends to get its bad reputation courtesy of the British! Think about it, most UK airgunners deal with 12ft/lb weaponry, when they fire the Patriot for the first time it's a bit of a shock to the system. The transition from that to a 30ft/lb springer takes some getting used to. In the USA, the UK Patriot (or Beeman Kodiak) is revered and respected, secondhand examples still command prices that match or exceed what they cost new.

In terms of the build quality, I have not seen an air rifle or many firearms that top the superb quality and luster of the bluing. Out of the box the Patriot can be a bit twangy but it can still deliver the goods-check this target out I shot at 25yds with my Kodiak using a Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 and Dampa mount:

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...0/Target-1.jpg

Overall the Patriot easily can stand its ground with an Eliminator and should be on any persons shopping list considering an FAC springer.

[Rapidnick]

I find it ironic the Patriot tends to get its bad reputation courtesy of the British! Think about it, most UK airgunners deal with 12ft/lb weaponry, when they fire the Patriot for the first time it's a bit of a shock to the system. The transition from that to a 30ft/lb springer takes some getting used to. In the USA, the UK Patriot (or Beeman Kodiak) is revered and respected, secondhand examples still command prices that match or exceed what they cost new.

In terms of the build quality, I have not seen an air rifle or many firearms that top the superb quality and luster of the bluing. Out of the box the Patriot can be a bit twangy but it can still deliver the goods-check this target out I shot at 25yds with my Kodiak using a Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 and Dampa mount:

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...0/Target-1.jpg

Overall the Patriot easily can stand its ground with an Eliminator and should be on any persons shopping list considering an FAC springer.

I agree with most of what you have written. I am pleasantly surprised by the performance of my Patriot although mine has been tuned. For the low price it represented amazing value.
Whether it can 'stand its ground' with the Eliminator/Crow Magnum I'm not so sure. To compare the two you need to have rifles in the same calibre delivering the same power. Doing that I found the Eliminator smoother and more refined. The problem comes from the ease with which the gas ram can be pressured UP. This tempts some shooters-unwisely in my opinion-to pump the ram up to increase power. If you were to compare an 'average' Patriot with an over-pressured Eliminator then I could understand the point but properly set up, the Eliminator has the edge-to me anyway. In my view there is little worse in the shooting world than shooting an over pressured gas ram rifle and this has led to shooters condemning the system itself rather than just that individual rifle.
Anyway, as you say, the Patriot has its place and I now have no intention of selling mine.

[lionel]

Hey Nick - how about this for a project for the New Year - I detune my .25 Eliminator to 26fpe and bring it down for a side-by-side comparison?

[Rapidnick]

Hey Nick - how about this for a project for the New Year - I detune my .25 Eliminator to 26fpe and bring it down for a side-by-side comparison?

Fine by me old cock. Happy Christmas to you and yours by the way.

[Vulcanator]

When it comes to refinement, an out of the box Eliminator has the edge only due to its powerplant. A gasram is always going to be smoother than a spring. My Kodiak puts out 28-29ft/lb and my target bears out its capability. In the field or on the range I'll be very surprised if the eliminator can exceed such performance, as Lionel suggested tune the Eliminator to your Patriot's power level and shoot them back to back.

Merry Christmas.

[Rapidnick]

When it comes to refinement, an out of the box Eliminator has the edge only due to its powerplant. A gasram is always going to be smoother than a spring. My Kodiak puts out 28-29ft/lb and my target bears out its capability. In the field or on the range I'll be very surprised if the eliminator can exceed such performance, as Lionel suggested tune the Eliminator to your Patriot's power level and shoot them back to back.

Merry Christmas.

And to you too.
Actually I shot Lionel's rifle before he did when another friend owned it. I remember that at the lower levels this particular Eliminator was very smooth indeed thus my comments because I have never owned a .25 Eliminator only .20 and .22. I have also only owned a .25 Patriot so it will be interesting to do the back to back as suggested.

One thing I do disagree with you on though is your assertion that a gas ram will always be smoother than a spring. Most of the shooters you talk to in the UK complain that the gas ram is too snappy. That can be as a result of over-pressuring it and it very often is. However, disregarding that, most of my friends much prefer to shoot a tuned springer rather than a gas ram. Also bear in mind that the price difference between a gas ram rifle and a quality springer leaves you enough money to tune the springer. OK perhaps not to top standard but I have yet to meet a shooter who would prefer a legal limit gas ram to a lazaglided springer but I'm sure they do exist.

[air-tech]

Just joined the Patriot club.

Would like to have the original open sights on this. Does anyone have any info as to what other Webleys were fitted with the same sights as the Patriot? And of which years?

I'm guessing that looking for "Patriot" open sights may be limiting somewhat but I'm pretty certain that what the Patriot had was shared with quite a few if not all of Webley's then current open sighted offerings, but would like confirmation / advice.

Thanks...

[verminhunter]

All Iam gonna say on this is that you get alot of rifle for the money.

[brian747]

Hi air-tech, i hope you enjoy the patriot ,i will shortly be enjoying a .20 eliminator i am getting from Nick, once my fac variation comes through , really looking forward to this should be great fun, i have no problem cocking these guns , and lots of practise will improve my handling for consistant accuracy .
atvb brian

[air-tech]

Hi Brian TBH the gun is still with the Police here in Malta so I can't get my hands on it till it's on my licence, can't wait to have a go with it!

All went fine at the end of the day with Mr RW's help notwithstanding that Gatwick airport must be (under)staffed by idiots... would you believe it took close to 2 hrs to sort out the export, each time I take some guns out I hear a different version of what needs to be done, this time they told us that Customs don't need to see the guns, crazy...

Anyway will eventually tidy the gun up a bit hence asking about the sights though there is always the option of blanking the holes with a grub screws.

[brian747]

Seasons greetings to you Air -tech and all airgunners in Malta and the uk too
atb brian

[Vulcanator]

Just joined the Patriot club.

Would like to have the original open sights on this. Does anyone have any info as to what other Webleys were fitted with the same sights as the Patriot? And of which years?

I'm guessing that looking for "Patriot" open sights may be limiting somewhat but I'm pretty certain that what the Patriot had was shared with quite a few if not all of Webley's then current open sighted offerings, but would like confirmation / advice.

Thanks...

Try www.gunspares.co.uk