BSA Scorpion

[Plink all day]

How does this pistol compare to the HW45 in terms of power, accuracy and hold sensitivity? I've read you can shoot coke cans at 40+ yards with the HW45, would the same be possible with the Scorpion?

[Rob M]

The Scorpion can, and often does beat the HW45 in terms of power, but I think the HW45 is probably more accurate. For some reason people think that the HW45 is a very powerful pistol, while it is more powerful than pistols like the Webley Tempest, Hurricane and similar, the fact is that pistols like the BSA Scorpion is more powerful, unless it hasn't been looked after of course. The Cometa Indian is also a powerful pistol. Amongst other pistols, I have two Scorpions, a Cometa Indian and an HW45, the Scorpions and the Indian do over 5 ft/lbs, while the HW45 does about 4.5 ft/lbs. I've chronoed several other HW45s as well and never seen one doing over 5 ft/lbs. A while back I serviced a Scorpion for someone with all new seals and a spring from Helston Gunsmiths, first shot over the chrono, it was doing 5.94 ft/lbs! Luckily it settled down to around 5.7 ft/lbs pretty quick and stayed there.

I know there's more to life than power, but I just don't think the HW45 deserves its reputation for very high power.

I know that HW45s are more accurate than Scorpions too, but I have to say that I find the HW45 so soulless and ugly that I much prefer shooting the scorpions, they're more satisfying and enjoyable to shoot, to me, than the HW45. If the HW45 wasn't a family heirloom, I'd sell it. The Scorpion is plenty accurate enough to be enjoyable and fun to shoot, looks better than the HW45 and if serviced proberly can be very sweet to shoot. My .177 Scorpion, with a home-made spring guide, lubricated with Moly paste on the piston and cylinder, and motorycle chain wax on the spring, is very nice to shoot indeed.

[Plink all day]

Thanks a lot for that Rod, very helpful! Yeah I've heard a wide range of ft lbs quoted for the HW45, not sure why that is really. I think it does look a bit chunky, but then the Scorpion is a fairly wacky design itself!

Its got to be fun to shoot though - the break barrel action also looks easier & quicker to load than a fiddly over lever.

Do both your scorpions still have their original plastic grips? I wondered if a custom grip might be possible as a future woodwork project?

Cheers!

[Thanaton23]

Do both your scorpions still have their original plastic grips? I wondered if a custom grip might be possible as a future woodwork project?

I'm gonna be doing this soon as I went and dropped my scorpion the other day and cracked the plastic quite badly! I want to try and make a more target style grip for it and may see about altering the trigger position too!

BTW, my scorpion is well powerful, and also very accurate! Check out the scores in the UBC vintage pistol and 6y comps!

Of all the guns I have, it's the scorpion I pick up first for a bit of plinking!

[ikarma70]

The reason why the Scorpion is more powerful is because it is a cut down BSA Mercury hence the 45 will never match it for power.

[magicniner]

My 25+ year old HW45 produces 5.5ft/lbs, looks like a pistol and has a fully adjustable 2 stage trigger
I have a Scorpion too as I'd always fancied one, the engineering just isn't in the same class though, it's technology is that of a 1970's low end BSA rifle, not a bad pistol but just not in the same league as the HW45, cheaper & easier to maintain though
I've not seen many people who can competently strip & rebuild an HW45, they usually end up damaging the seal or not sizing it correctly if required and then the pistol is low on power, there's a lot more to it than bunging in a seal & a spring
Regards,
Nick

[Rob M]

I'm gonna be doing this soon as I went and dropped my scorpion the other day and cracked the plastic quite badly! I want to try and make a more target style grip for it and may see about altering the trigger position too!

BTW, my scorpion is well powerful, and also very accurate! Check out the scores in the UBC vintage pistol and 6y comps!

Of all the guns I have, it's the scorpion I pick up first for a bit of plinking!

A while back you could still buy brand new grips from John Knibbs.

I don't want anyone to think that I'm out to bash the HW45, they are very well engineered and the ability to choose low or high power levels is a very nice touch. There's something about the look of it that makes it seem ugly to me, it seems a bit graceless and is certainly out of proportion.

To say the Scorpion's technology is that of a 1970's low end BSA rifle is wide of the mark. They are actually pretty well made, the trigger is a good design and while they do look like an airgun rather than a big semi-auto pistol, there is a kind of grace about them, in the curves of the stock and the proportions of the thing. I think some people's opinions of the Scorpion are coloured by the fact that they shot Scorpions in the past that had been abused, not looked after or serviced properly. A Scorpion with a worn-out piston head o-ring or a breech seal that is worn or split will seem harsh to shoot, and will recoil more, and therefore be less accurate and less enjoyable to shoot.

Scorpions can take a lot of abuse though. I got one, it had been roughly sanded down by a previous owner, painted metallic silver, then black over the top of that, a drip of paint had run down inside the barrel and hardened, and it had been shot, a lot, with no lubrication and little in the way of a piston head or breech seal! Surprising really, that the paint in the rifling had not been removed by pellets, it also didn't seem to affect accuracy much, although it was very harsh to shoot. I stripped off all the paint and tried to re-black it with Birchwood Casey Perma-blue, which was not very successful, removed the paint from the barrel with a specially made brass pick, cleaned the cylinder, then reassembled with a new spring guide, moly GN paste on the cylinder, piston, breech jaws, and motorcycle chain wax on the spring, new piston head and buffer washer, new breech seal, surprisingly it shoots very nicely and is accurate with a wide range of pellets! This pistol is the one I reach for most often after my Webley Tempest, it's just so satisfying and enjoyable to shoot!

I'll always have a soft spot for the Scorpion, one was the first ever airgun I ever shot in my life, and I own that very gun now. The HW45 is a fine air pistol but it just doesn't have the soul that the Scorpion does.

[Plink all day]

Several people have mentioned the Scorpion is probably not as accurate as the HW45 - could anyone guess at how much less? Is it more comparable to a Tempest for example?

[magicniner]

To say the Scorpion's technology is that of a 1970's low end BSA rifle is wide of the mark. They are actually pretty well made, the trigger is a good design

I too wasn't having a pop, I have had a Meteor since 1973 and it's well made and designed but it is what it is and that's good for it's time, but the technology moved on,
Regards,
Nick

[les allam]

Several people have mentioned the Scorpion is probably not as accurate as the HW45 - could anyone guess at how much less? Is it more comparable to a Tempest for example?

I have both pistols,and yes the scorpian is as accurate as the hw45.It all depends on who is shooting it.It is a capable performer and my favourite pistol.
les

[Tony.T]

I have never 'got' the HW45. It's a hugely unbalanced ugly pistol that is nearly impossible to shoot with any accuracy.

A pistol that is designed to be accurate will have it's bore as low as possible to mitigate recoil effects.

imo the best spring pistol has to be the Diana range, the bore line is low and the P5 magnum produces power that the HW 45 can only dream of ! (about 5.6 ft lbs all day long if that's what you want) It's also very accurate and smooth to shoot with a long sight radius.

[magicniner]

I have never 'got' the HW45. It's a hugely unbalanced ugly pistol that is nearly impossible to shoot with any accuracy .

So many people do shoot the HW45 well that that could sound a little like sour grapes!
You could apply full bore target pistol shooting techniques & as with full bore pistols practice dry fire & live to "Get" the HW45 and learn to shoot it with accuracy.
If you then had the opportunity to shoot a full bore pistol, such as a Colt 1911, you'd be pleased to see that your technique transferred nicely and allowed you to get good groupings first time out, I did

A pistol that is designed to be accurate will have it's bore as low as possible to mitigate recoil effects.

So how far above the top of your hand is the piston centre line on your preferred pistols? As of course you will know that any recoil from the pellet is negligable compared with the piston recoil.

imo the best spring pistol has to be the Diana range, the bore line is low and the P5 magnum produces power that the HW 45 can only dream of ! (about 5.6 ft lbs all day long if that's what you want) It's also very accurate and smooth to shoot with a long sight radius.

How about 5.5ft/lbs for the last 25+ years with just some lube now & again? Yes, that's my HW45.
Most manufacturers started off by making pistols like cut down break action spring rifles when the technology or imagination wasn't there to do anything else.
Cheap & cheerful springers are still made that way. The target pistols with counter-acting pistons have to be that shape to fit the technology in and the Scorpion is a bit tactical/cool and of it's time but that could be seen to look cheap these days
If Webley had had the imagination to make one of theirs a bit longer, with an alloy outer shell, a good two stage trigger and legal limit power they'd have built the HW45 before Weihrauch/Beeman.
ATB,
Nick

[chris100575]

I used to have a .177 HW45 and that was doing 4.5 ft lbs. While it was fun to shoot I never managed any degree of accuracy with it. At the time I was a member of an airgun club and one of my friends let me have a go of his .22 Scorpion. That was doing 5.7 ft lbs, and I found it easier to shoot accurately than the HW45. I tried to buy it, but he wouldn't part with it. I've recently bought a Scorpion from one of the members on here and am looking forward to seeing if it's as good as I remember when it arrives.

Plenty of people seem to get on well with the HW45, but I couldn't.

[gingernut]

I bought my .22 Scorpion in 1974 from Toytown in Leamington Spa for £17 6 shillings.
It had an overhaul and new spring last year.
I bought a .22 HW Silver Star last year for a bit more.
The Scorpion is easier to load and more powerful-just over 5 ft llbs. To date it is also more accurate at long distances than the SS although to be fair I need to shoot the SS a bit more and find a pellet it likes.
The Scorpion will also shoot any old pellets quite well.
Both Icons though, and I suppose that 36 years of Scorpion shooting helps a bit.