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Thread: Lothar Walther vs. Smooth Twist

  1. #16
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    Quite the opposite, Rod

    they are MORE expensive to produce than standard barrels, the special 'blanks' (in fact specialist tubing) costs nearly as much as a LW rifled blank (ie. the unworked FX balnks cost nearly as much as the worked LW blanks).

    One aspect of the SmoothTwist barrels is their seeming immunity to fouling & they dont cut the pellet resulting in a more uniform projectile.

    The guy who made the video is in the States and shoots at FAC levels, he's had an Edgun for a while - they are often messed with to get max power, that could well be his problem here. Most American air gun users select pellets on a weight basis (for some reason ) I've tried to educate them about head sizes etc. but they tell me the makers dont provide the information, well that could also be an issue with his LW barrelled Edgun.

    FX will not be making SmoothTwist barrels available to the public.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by matlip View Post
    Blimey, I almost lost the will to live during that.

    "And the rifling goes from the beginning to the end"...

    Well, no shit.

    Boring Yank twat.

  3. #18
    Parabuteo is offline My Chrony has bought it a couple of times...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Johnstone View Post
    they are MORE expensive to produce than standard barrels, the special 'blanks' (in fact specialist tubing) costs nearly as much as a LW rifled blank (ie. the unworked FX balnks cost nearly as much as the worked LW blanks).

    One aspect of the SmoothTwist barrels is their seeming immunity to fouling & they dont cut the pellet resulting in a more uniform projectile.

    The guy who made the video is in the States and shoots at FAC levels, he's had an Edgun for a while - they are often messed with to get max power, that could well be his problem here. Most American air gun users select pellets on a weight basis (for some reason ) I've tried to educate them about head sizes etc. but they tell me the makers dont provide the information, well that could also be an issue with his LW barrelled Edgun.

    FX will not be making SmoothTwist barrels available to the public.
    Fair Ian

    But would the point not also be that the machinery and processes are considerably faster, and rejection rate lower (just supposition on my part there having been briefed on smooth twist) so this would offset the fact that the blank is more expensive (at the moment).

    The system is still in development to an extent, so best wait and see

    Moreover, the barrel is as stated, less prone to fouling, less pellet fussy, and may (or may not be) a match for match barrels....with much less variables.

    It is also slightly more efficient in PCP form, which has to also be a usefull spin off.

    Technological advances these days are seldom major leaps, but more often not a bit here and there.

    Smoothtwist may tick all the boxes yet, particularly for mass production
    Last edited by Parabuteo; 06-02-2011 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Spelling...oops
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  4. #19
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    To put cost of blanks into perspective, the Americans can have a Lothar Walther barrel machined and fitted to their gun for around $120, that's £75, for a one-off custom job. Now if the smooth twist barrel blank is twice as much as the Lothar, it should hardly make a huge difference to the total cost of a gun.

    There's maybe a good grain of truth in Hares Ear's earlier post.

    If it's more expensive, it must be better, even if there's no commercial need for it to be more expensive.

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  5. #20
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    barrel

    Was after one cos I thought have to change a caliber,but as much I ask the answer was not available yet.So we just dreaming.....

  6. #21
    Murphy is offline Cooee! Chase me you naughty boys!
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    If FX own the rights to this barrel what is the point in banging on about being able to own one.

    Unless you buy an FX rifle you wont.

    And IMO FX rifles are very overpriced and not that good.

    And as for improving accuracy nearly all airguns have one hole accuracy now,

    at the ranges most people use them anyway.

    So my question is how can you get MORE accuracy than what's already available?!
    Master Debater

  7. #22
    Parabuteo is offline My Chrony has bought it a couple of times...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    If FX own the rights to this barrel what is the point in banging on about being able to own one.

    Unless you buy an FX rifle you wont.

    And IMO FX rifles are very overpriced and not that good.

    And as for improving accuracy nearly all airguns have one hole accuracy now,

    at the ranges most people use them anyway.

    So my question is how can you get MORE accuracy than what's already available?!
    I cannot see one company getting the rights to this Murph.

    If it works out it could well be quite a widespread thing...on the other hand...But who knows.

    The point is that a barrel can be made, more quickly, with less likelyhood of rejection (I base that on less to go wrong as long as the blank is made correctly) that is much more tolerant of different pellet types.

    Even if accuracy is comparable, the other factors may weigh in it's favour.

    This may men that we have to worry less about batch numbers, pellets going out of production, etc etc.

    Ben is also doing experiments with varying degress of twist and numbers of...err...dents, (corresponding with grooves on a conventional barrel). These have turned up some interesting results by all accounts.

    Apparently the smooth twist made quite an impression on a well known semi auto rimmie too.

    I have one of the rounds fired by it, uncanilly smooth.

    I think it may be a whole can of worms that sound as though it was worth opening.

    I think half the problem is that Ben is (quite rightly) very secretive and exploring all of the possible applications before licenses get sold etc. As a result, we think things are either not progressing, or react to heresay or conjecture.

    I am only working on what he has told me, and what I have heard from others who have tested the barrel and the Airgun press.
    I'm a maggot in another life you know

  8. #23
    Murphy is offline Cooee! Chase me you naughty boys!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabuteo View Post
    I cannot see one company getting the rights to this Murph.
    Not totally 100% sure of this but I remember Ben posting on here that he has sold all rights to FX?!

    Apologies to Ben if this is not the case.

    He may have just said FX are starting to produce them.
    Master Debater

  9. #24
    Parabuteo is offline My Chrony has bought it a couple of times...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Not totally 100% sure of this but I remember Ben posting on here that he has sold all rights to FX?!

    Apologies to Ben if this is not the case.

    He may have just said FX are starting to produce them.
    Murph, I dont know for sure mate, but I think that is closer TBH and more likely given his close association with FX.

    I know he had some of the big gun companies interested, it would be a bit daft to blow your pension plan down the swanee if it all took off eh

    Personally, I would like one married to a Hugget shroud for my BTAS100...shant be holding my breath though
    I'm a maggot in another life you know

  10. #25
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    Here's what I know of the SmoothTwist story

    Ben had 3 original 'machines' made, 2 of which were licensed immediately to FX whilst Ben retained (of course) the patents.

    Fredrik (Mr FX) has since spent months optimising the process ('its not the outcome its the way') - 5.5mm (.22") was first out of the blocks in summer/autumn 2010, with 4.5mm (.177") proving somewhat awkward.

    Some changes to the number of 'lands' were introduced late 2010 and the 4.5mm barrel were released, as of approx 3 weeks ago the '6.35' or .25" barrels were released in the Royale gun (with the larger 500 buddy bottle & longer sound moderator).

    Here's an overview of the SmoothTwist production - please note that this is the owner of the company ACTUALLY MAKING the barrels !
    Approx post # 9
    http://www.fxoc.info/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1007

    Ben meanwhile, has an agreement to take up some of FX's barrel output for his specialist offerings sometime in the future.
    Last edited by Ian Johnstone; 06-02-2011 at 08:14 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hares Ear View Post
    If they are such a good do, get sown in then and buy one. I will be interested to see the improvement in accuracy at 25-30 yards, the improvement in velocity consistency over a ten shot string etc. etc. etc.
    I don't think I will be bothering.

    Just another thing. Whenever I have been interested enough to have a look at a fired airgun pellet I haven't stood over a bucket. I've shot into a trough of water, or the village beck at around twenty yards at an angle. Amazingly enough you can retrieve the pellets with no deformation at all. But I find it a lot easier to slug the bore.
    Having made and sold tens of thousands of air rifles fitted with the German made barrels I know how many are rejected as substandard, FX have also suffered this same problem with the same manufacturer until they are forced to make there own useing my SmoothTwist system.
    They are now getting the consistent accuracy they require in production, far better than they have ever had before.
    Pray tell me what you are basing your comments on, a few rifles bought and sold maybe, thought so

    Ben

    What has a "brass spring" got to do with anything anyway?

  12. #27
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    Those recovered .22lr were recovered by a secret process, no water bucket involved.
    "Shooters, regardless of their preferred quarry, enjoy their sport for its ability to transfer them from their day-to-day life into a world where they can lose themselves for a few hours". B Potts.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodp View Post
    One other thing that should be taken in to consideration regarding all the hype about smooth twist barrels is ease / cost of manufacturing. If they are (and the hype says they are) just externally formed without dies / cutting tools etc the speed, and therefore cost, of manufacturing will be greatly reduced.
    When it comes to profit wording can be manipulated to mean a lot of things

    Regarding all the articles about smooth twist, I would take it all with a pinch of salt at the moment. All the reviews and articles so far (that I have seen) have been in magazines and magazines rely on advertising (both current and future), read into that what you will.

    I've never seen a smooth twist, let alone tried one, but when I do I'll bear in mind that there's a lot of external forces that can / will try to influence peoples opinion of them.
    All published tests have been carried out with total honesty, your post suggests that the writers are lying and I influence the outcome by advertising my barrels in there magazines, give me the month and title of the magazine if that is the case or dont put in print something you may regret.
    You can come and test SmoothTwist for yourself on our indoor range any time you like if it will make you happy, however I am sure your blinkered aproach will endure.

    Ben

    Ben

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bengarzy View Post
    All published tests have been carried out with total honesty, your post suggests that the writers are lying and I influence the outcome by advertising my barrels in there magazines, give me the month and title of the magazine if that is the case or dont put in print something you may regret.
    You can come and test SmoothTwist for yourself on our indoor range any time you like if it will make you happy, however I am sure your blinkered aproach will endure.

    Ben

    Ben
    Would you like to point out where I have suggested anyone is actually lying or you have influenced anyone,the actual word was "manipulated". If you don't know what it means I'll get someone to explain. !
    Can you please elaborate on my blinkered approach
    Lastly, don't threaten me until you have bothered to absorb what's written.

  15. #30
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    Time will tell.
    If accuracy and consistency can be improved with a 'Smooth Twist Barrel' it will not be long before rifled barrels are being phased out.

    At present, current production barrels are better than most shooters are capable of shooting them.
    Many current airguns in production are easily capable of producing tiny groups now. At airgun ranges any improvement in accuracy alone will not be obvious. Improvement will only be discernable when the minute of angle opens up at ranges far beyond the capabilities of an airgun.
    It will take far more than a bloke on a step ladder shooting into a bucket of water, with a handful of bent pellets to convince me of the need to ditch my collection.
    Robin

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