Muff pistol project for sale

[guy]

Hi All,
Found this amongst my Late fathers bits, not really my cup of tea! can remember having the conversation with him about it and he said it was missing a few screws but apart from that it was all there! looks like it is all there to me as he said apart from a few screws. please see pictures below:

http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/t...MUFF%20PISTOL/

Am after £100 posted for it.

[Smokeless Coal]

It'll be section 1 as a muzzle loader.
Unless the flash hole has not been drilled yet in which case its still off ticket. Some kits are sold without the hole drilled.

[guy]

Gent's it is an old one that some one has taken apart!! if you look at the barrel it is well pitted on the outside and on the inside for that matter! as in an original muff pistol!!!!! so not section 1 or section 5!

[njaw]

Gent's it is an old one that some one has taken apart!! if you look at the barrel it is well pitted on the outside and on the inside for that matter! as in an original muff pistol!!!!! so not section 1 or section 5!

That's right. It's an antique obsolete cal pistol. No licence required.

[Tantomurata]

UK Firearms Law Guidance To The Police 2002 Chapter 8
ANTIQUE FIREARMS
Part I: Old weapons which should benefit from exemption as antiques under section 58 (2) of the Firearms Act 1968
8.5 Pre-1939 weapons to benefit from exemption as antiques are as follows:
a) All muzzle-loading firearms;

When kept as curiousities or ornaments.

[Tantomurata]

i know chapter and verse of the firearms law lol, but my point is this,
if it was a section 58...then the caps and ball added would make it a section one as licence needed to buy them to start with

No licence needed for percussion caps, when the law changed it only applied to primers, unless there's an amendment I missed.

No licence needed for ball.

If the owner/purchaser has propellant as well, then yes it will usually be considered Section 1, as having caps, propellant and projectiles could imply an intention to use, rather than possess as a 'curiosity or ornament'

There are only a few caps shown, so the seller might as well soak them in some oil and throw them away.

[enfield2band]

No licence needed for percussion caps, when the law changed it only applied to primers, unless there's an amendment I missed.

No licence needed for ball.

If the owner/purchaser has propellant as well, then yes it will usually be considered Section 1, as having caps, propellant and projectiles could imply an intention to use, rather than possess as a 'curiosity or ornament'

There are only a few caps shown, so the seller might as well soak them in some oil and throw them away.

Hi,
I think you have it a bit mixed up.
I know of people who have powder, cap and ball but have some of their guns as antique/curios.
The only time one needs to put an antique muzzleloader on license is if or when they intend to use it.

As far as I am aware there is not any clause of intention to use just because someone has the necessary components. If that was the case all or none of the antique arms would have to be on ones fac/Sg.

[Tantomurata]

Hi,
I think you have it a bit mixed up.
I know of people who have powder, cap and ball but have some of their guns as antique/curios.
The only time one needs to put an antique muzzleloader on license is if or when they intend to use it.

As far as I am aware there is not any clause of intention to use just because someone has the necessary components. If that was the case all or none of the antique arms would have to be on ones fac/Sg.

I wasn't clear enough in what I wrote.
I had corrected other peoples comments about needing a licence for caps and ball, they don't need a licence.
True, there are people that have cap, ball and powder, and still possess Sec.58(2) items off ticket, but those people also have items on ticket and thus a reason for possessing the cap, ball, and powder.
What I meant to say was, if someone owned an antique off ticket under Sec.58(2) and possessed cap, ball and powder for which they had no other purpose, for example they didn't have any on ticket guns, then the powers that be could take the view that possessing the means to fire the item implied an intention to own it for purposes other than 'curiosity or ornament'.
In the guidance to Police it states this "Note (i) – The exemption does not apply to ammunition, and the possession of live ammunition suitable for use with an otherwise antique firearm may indicate that the firearm is not possessed as a curio or ornament."
Now while this statement follows on from the guidance on 'obsolete calibres', and thus applies to self contained ammunition, if someone possessed a muzzle loader, together with cap, ball and for arguements sake lets say a BP substitute powder, none of which requires a licence, and they had no other purpose for owning those items together, for example they don't have an on ticket gun for which they need the items, then I think the Police and courts would take a dim view on the muzzle loader actually being owned simply as a 'curiosity or ornament'
I hope this is clearer in what I was trying to explain.

[enfield2band]

I wasn't clear enough in what I wrote.
I had corrected other peoples comments about needing a licence for caps and ball, they don't need a licence.
True, there are people that have cap, ball and powder, and still possess Sec.58(2) items off ticket, but those people also have items on ticket and thus a reason for possessing the cap, ball, and powder.
What I meant to say was, if someone owned an antique off ticket under Sec.58(2) and possessed cap, ball and powder for which they had no other purpose, for example they didn't have any on ticket guns, then the powers that be could take the view that possessing the means to fire the item implied an intention to own it for purposes other than 'curiosity or ornament'.
In the guidance to Police it states this "Note (i) – The exemption does not apply to ammunition, and the possession of live ammunition suitable for use with an otherwise antique firearm may indicate that the firearm is not possessed as a curio or ornament."
Now while this statement follows on from the guidance on 'obsolete calibres', and thus applies to self contained ammunition, if someone possessed a muzzle loader, together with cap, ball and for arguements sake lets say a BP substitute powder, none of which requires a licence, and they had no other purpose for owning those items together, for example they don't have an on ticket gun for which they need the items, then I think the Police and courts would take a dim view on the muzzle loader actually being owned simply as a 'curiosity or ornament'
I hope this is clearer in what I was trying to explain.

Hi,
I understand what you are saying.
Like other aspects of the Firearms Act it is a grey area.
Some experts will argue along the case you have reasoned, other will argue that until a gun has been loaded no offence has been committed.

Atb

[robinghewitt]

I've got one of them on my FAC for the Christmas 'box locks at 10 paces' competition.

Plod said, "Why bother? It's infrequent use".

It amuses me, I never win but they are fun

[guy]

chap's, i sold this on gunstar within 12 hours of it going on there for the asking price..

[delbertuk]

Tfft!

[majex45]

That's right. It's an antique obsolete cal pistol. No licence required.

Comment removed as its already been said.