Colt Signature Series

[Iain D]

Could anyone tell me how to tell whether genuine or not and what series differences there are. I have been offered a never fired and boxed.44 pistol as a collectors item, I should get to see it in the next few days. Are they collectors pieces or should they just be used and enjoyed.

[steve medlock]

I have a feeling that they were made in Italy for Colt to sell. Could well be wrong on that though.

[tacfoley]

I'm confused as to whether you are asking if it is a genuine Colt Blackpowder Firearms Signature model or a fake of the real thing? Are you asking if it is a fake of a fake?

Is the case fitted and with accessories? Is the original packaging available?

Anyhow -

There have been THREE distinct eras of Colt and 'Colt' revolver production -

1. First generation - the original Hartford and Vauxhall [London Address] Colts - prices may be seen on Pete Holder's excellent web-site. For cased Armys, think £2500-3000 up to VERY expensive, like hundred of thousands, for certain models of the real thing.

2. Second generation - with parts in the rough made by Uberti in Italy, shipped to a 'new' company called Colt Blackpowder Firearms in Brooklyn NY for finishing and assembly so that they could be lawfully called a 'made-in-America' Colt, and

3. Third generation, the so-called 'signature series', made from parts culled from a wide ranging number of suppliers.

ALL second and third generation Colts have major components made in Italy, and have to bear the requisite proof marks establishing this on the barrel. They are to be found under the loading lever on the barrel, and will look more or less like this -

'PN' [pulvero nero = black powder]

A serial code, ie. BS in a square box - the date of production code [this one is for 2002]

The words Gardone Val Trompia [the other Italian proof house]

The actual maker's cypher - in the case of Uberti, the letter U in a gear wheel outline - actually a cross-section of a rifled barrel.

'Black powder' or 'Black powder only' stamp.

Needless to say, except in the case of the Walker model, where the serial numbers continued onwards from the original 1250 [my Walker is #1816] the serial number of the gun will also be substantially different to that of the real deal. You'll need to PM me for them, as I don't give out information like that over an open forum.

IF this pistol is being represented to you as a genuine Colt revolver then the signs of this are unmistakeable - as is the price. Around £500 or so it MUST either be a replica - such as a Signature model - or a forgery of the real thing. Cased signature models with all accessories can be had around this figure, although some dealers want a LOT more. Remember that however nice they are, they are still a replica. Faking these modern replicas into 'real Colts' is widespread, BTW. Remember that IF this is a modern replica firearm, it is also a Section 1 firearm, and will need you to have a slot on your FAC to buy it.

Don't hesitate to post again with more details -

Hope this helps.

tac

[Iain D]

I got a look at the pistol yesterday and it has been fired and the screw heads show very slight signs of being removed there are also slight marks on the rhs of the wedge where it has received a nudge to take the barrel off. The case is a cardboard box gray in colour with the colt logo on the top and the inside along with paperwork supporting that it is a signature series model. The address stamped on the top is for New York and there is a gold inlaid signature on the backstrap of the grip. The overall condition looks very very good but not un-fired as first stated, the box also has seen better days, a bit damaged at a couple of the corners. The gent trying to sell this pistol is looking for £300 or a near offer.

I will try and get another look at it to get some photos and let you all see what the pistols condition looks like.

Thanks for all the info so far.

Iain D

[tacfoley]

I got a look at the pistol yesterday and it has been fired and the screw heads show very slight signs of being removed there are also slight marks on the rhs of the wedge where it has received a nudge to take the barrel off. The case is a cardboard box gray in colour with the colt logo on the top and the inside along with paperwork supporting that it is a signature series model. The address stamped on the top is for New York and there is a gold inlaid signature on the backstrap of the grip. The overall condition looks very very good but not un-fired as first stated, the box also has seen better days, a bit damaged at a couple of the corners. The gent trying to sell this pistol is looking for £300 or a near offer.

I will try and get another look at it to get some photos and let you all see what the pistols condition looks like.

Thanks for all the info so far.

Iain D

See your PM.

tac

[Sergeant Possum]

I'm confused as to whether you are asking if it is a genuine Colt Blackpowder Firearms Signature model or a fake of the real thing? Are you asking if it is a fake of a fake?

Is the case fitted and with accessories? Is the original packaging available?

Anyhow -

There have been THREE distinct eras of Colt and 'Colt' revolver production -

1. First generation - the original Hartford and Vauxhall [London Address] Colts - prices may be seen on Pete Holder's excellent web-site. For cased Armys, think £2500-3000 up to VERY expensive, like hundred of thousands, for certain models of the real thing.

2. Second generation - with parts in the rough made by Uberti in Italy, shipped to a 'new' company called Colt Blackpowder Firearms in Brooklyn NY for finishing and assembly so that they could be lawfully called a 'made-in-America' Colt, and

3. Third generation, the so-called 'signature series', made from parts culled from a wide ranging number of suppliers.

ALL second and third generation Colts have major components made in Italy, and have to bear the requisite proof marks establishing this on the barrel. They are to be found under the loading lever on the barrel, and will look more or less like this -

'PN' [pulvero nero = black powder]

A serial code, ie. BS in a square box - the date of production code [this one is for 2002]

The words Gardone Val Trompia [the other Italian proof house]

The actual maker's cypher - in the case of Uberti, the letter U in a gear wheel outline - actually a cross-section of a rifled barrel.

'Black powder' or 'Black powder only' stamp.

Needless to say, except in the case of the Walker model, where the serial numbers continued onwards from the original 1250 [my Walker is #1816] the serial number of the gun will also be substantially different to that of the real deal. You'll need to PM me for them, as I don't give out information like that over an open forum.

IF this pistol is being represented to you as a genuine Colt revolver then the signs of this are unmistakeable - as is the price. Around £500 or so it MUST either be a replica - such as a Signature model - or a forgery of the real thing. Cased signature models with all accessories can be had around this figure, although some dealers want a LOT more. Remember that however nice they are, they are still a replica. Faking these modern replicas into 'real Colts' is widespread, BTW. Remember that IF this is a modern replica firearm, it is also a Section 1 firearm, and will need you to have a slot on your FAC to buy it.

Don't hesitate to post again with more details -

Hope this helps.

tac

You're almost correct, TAC.
The so-called 2nd generation Colts were indeed made from parts manufactured by Uberti, and shipped to the US for assembly and finishing. But that work was done for Colt under contract by Iver Johnson. The finished pistols were then shipped to the Colt plant in Hartford for shipment to their dealers. The quality fit, finish, and workmanship of these guns is excellent. I've owned several, and they are great shooters. True 2nd generation guns do not have Italian proofs, as only the parts were made in Italy, not the gun. So Italian proof laws do not apply.

The "Colt Blackpowder" company in New York did not come on the scene until several years later, when a group of lawyers were able to obtain the rights to the Colt trademark. They sold knives, belt buckles, and all sorts of items, including the "Signature Series", or "3rd generation" percussion revolvers. These guns were also made up of Italian parts. I don't know who did the assembly and finishing, but the quality of workmanship of the 3rd generation Colts is not nearly as good as the 1st and 2nd generation guns. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot pole.