Old School Venom lazaglide Vs Modern V-mach Weihrauchs...

[Mattatack]

My Venom lazaglided 77 trophy would have cost £510.00 in 1987-what does that equate to in modern money? You see where I'm going with this......

yeah you're obviously fed up with it and intend on passing it on to some unsuspecting mug

[brucegill]

This is a great observation-exactly how I feel about the older style Vs modern V-mach. I have had a brief comparison today-changing triggers/stock etc, both shoot well, the V-mach 97k being slightly "harsher" than the Lazaglided 77k.
After swapping bits between the rifles, they both need properly zeroing in-both scopes are plumbed and set for correct eye-relief, need tweaking tommorrow am then try and set the zero's properly.
The one thing I am finding hardest is shooting a spring rifle prone-kneeling fine, prone-well, its a work in progress

You'd better give up mate and send me one of the 77's

[Happy-Harry]

My Venom lazaglided 77 trophy would have cost £510.00 in 1987-what does that equate to in modern money? You see where I'm going with this......

£1173

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...nged-1900.html

[brucegill]

£1173

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...nged-1900.html

oh bugger, do you do 0% finance Graham??

[Baxterbasics]

£1173

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...nged-1900.html

The point I am trying to make-everything is now built to a price How many man hours were spent honing the originals to perfection? Or is it a case of the apprentice has truly become the master

[Amac]

For me, Steve Pope is still the man to beat tuning wise. Lets face it, he has true "Venom" blood in his veins.

Andy

[Baxterbasics]

For me, Steve Pope is still the man to beat tuning wise. Lets face it, he has true "Venom" blood in his veins.

Andy

Agree 100%-buying or selling an expensive tuned spring rifle, provenance is essential-Steve Pope is obviously at the top of the tree right now

What I am asking is: how does his work compare to the Venom rifles of old?

[bozzer]

Agree 100%-buying or selling an expensive tuned spring rifle, provenance is essential-Steve Pope is obviously at the top of the tree right now

What I am asking is: how does his work compare to the Venom rifles of old?

I tried to answer that in my last post by saying that I personally found no difference in the cocking, firing or accuracy of my 77 with the old Venom kit or the new V-Mach kit.

The other work inside the gun Steve will have learned from his Dad anyway.

Surely the proof is in the pudding ... ie the end result.

If this was a car engine I suppose you put the pedal to the floor and you see what the max power is ... or top speed ... so you have a figure to compare like with like. So is this new one better than the last one etc.

... but once a gun cocks as smooth as a smooth thing ... and it fires with a fast and minimal thud ... and you are getting groups that are as tight as is possible given tolerences of pellets and the thing pulling the trigger ... then you've reached a point where it doesn't really matter ... and/or it's not possible to tell the difference between the two.

I think we've reached this point now with kits from V-Mach and Welsh Willy etc. I've said before that you can then start buttoning or going to the extremes that Bigtoe does to satisfy personal curiosity ... but you won't get 'noticably' any better result.

[Baxterbasics]

You make valid points-down to personal preference really

Poll now added to thread

[basa]

I prefer the old venom's over the vmach's,I think it my be a case of the older rifles being properly run in,having had two HW85s tuned/converted to oring, by Tony[bigtoe] I would urge anyone thinking of having their rifle tuned, to give him serious thought,at the time of tuning my 85s I had approx 8 Venom/ Vmach rifles shortly after delivery of the 85s from Tony,I sold all the venom/vmach rifles, the 85s are not run in yet, I have recently bought a venom hornet .20,and a lazaglide 98.177 from vmach, and whilst having only shot both very lightly, none have shot any better/felt smoother, than Tony's two 85s,I will certainly use Tony's services in the future.

[jumbuck]

My mate had a Venom HW80, can't remember what Venom called it but By eck was that smoooooooooooooooth and pretty My HW80 seemed like a plain Jane bucking bronco next to the Venom. I bugged my mate for years about buying it off him after he gave up shooting but wouldn't sell it to me
Some years later we were talking about the good ole days and i asked if he still had it but someone had waved a wedge of green stuff and he took the money and sold it

The HW80 i have now is tuned by Dave Hall

[Baxterbasics]

I have never shot a Dave Hall tuned rifle or a fully tuned SFS hw77/97-so I cannot comment with any authority.
I spent a couple of hours with a member off here this morning, comparing various hw80's 77's and a 97k.
We both agreed that there is very little to choose between the Lazaglided 77k and the V-Mached 97k-both a delight to shoot.
Keith had a 1980's fully Lazaglided HW80 in .22 which was superb-on the chrono it was only varying by 2-3 fps with Exacts from the tin

[TonyL]

This is a real toughie.

I have a selection of HWs, all tuned by Dave, Ivan and Steve (remember, Steve worked alongside pops for a fair few years). They're all superb. The sweetest of the bunch has to be my Lazaglided Bullpup 80, which you'd expect, as my Vantage 77 just has a "standard" tune, but there ain't much in it.

Can anyone now remember / did anyone know how much was actually done when Venom breathed their magic on spring guns? Were the cylinders honed? -Probably not required on 77s, but of greater value on un sleeved springers. We're transfer ports re-profiled/opened up/smoothed?
All my Venoms are lovely. I've not actually used some of them for years as most of my shooting recently has been at very close range at home, and they're too special for that. I seem to remember that my .22 80, although smooth, did feel very lazy, but then you'd expect that with increased efficiency but running standard stroke and bore.....amazingly accurate, though, very forgiving and this gun has accounted for more bunnies than all my others.

I hope to bring the Bullpup to the springer gathering.....we got there, Graham!!!!

The old Mark 1 77 that I got for free a few years ago shoots very sweetly also. Just dropped a V-Mach kit in and it's beautiful. One of the guys at the club I used to go to really had a thing against springers...until he shot this one!!

Sorry chaps, gotta sit on the fence on this one...can't split the older/newer ones.

I can imagine, however, that a rifle personally breathed on by Steve Pope, with all those extra years of accumulated knowledge and expertise, really must be something very, very special. From references on here, the waiting list will be very, very long and it won't be cheap, but then since when has acquiring the best ever been cheap?? And remember, I bet he's often got Mr Pope senior advising, helping and prodding.

I really miss my many visits to the Cradley Heath premises and still remember the smell........

Best days of my life........

[keithomas]

My slant on old venom vs new vmach is theirs no definate line. Fifty /50
Oh the venoms slower
Oh the vmach is snappier
Both are true... when you try it you will know.

If your lucky enough to own or have shot one of the above you know their special. Their not the average. Before today id have said yer fulla shi te if ya know the diffrence. But now their is a diffrence. With out rambeling and sounding like a twat...Their both diffrent but so good!!!

Ive just bought a hw77 .77 on the back of what i sampled earlier.

[bozzer]

Just couple of points ...

My comments were in no way negative towards what Bigtoe does. I love reading his stuff and admire what he does. I'd love him to do one of my guns but I wasn't aware that he 'offers his services' ... I just thought he works on what he fancies?

The old V new Venom/ V-Mach ... I don't think that this is a Ivan/Dave V Steve ... I think materials have changed over the years and if Ivan and Dave were still doing Venom, they may well be doing things exactly like Steve is doing.

I went to Venom once and had the pleasure of watching them tune me a 77. Probably not the full Monty ... rather a quick 45 minute job ... but interesting all the same.