Not sure about my new old Beesa!!

[johnbaz]

Hi all


If anyone recalls the BSA Improved mod D that I bought last weekend that was supposed to have been made in 1908, Well I looked in my Hillers guide to air rifles and things just don't seem to add up

The serial is 46495, according to my book this makes it manufactured in 1911 but in the book it says that it should be stamped on the top of the cylinder with 'The BSA Air Rifle (Improved model D) The Birmingham Small Arms Company Limited, Sole Manufacturers'

The only stamping is the serial number on the trigger block, It also says that it should be stamped 'LOAD' forward of the tap which it doesn't


Does this mean it's not an Improved model D?? I presume it's something similar to my 1936 BSA Standard that was etched rather than stamped!!


The gun..

Pic 1


The Cylinder


The load tap


Serial #



IOt's a bit of a quandry to me



John

[Abasmajor]

Hi,

The 'Duckbill' cocking lever end makes this an improved Mod D, with the Ser No dating it to 1912.

No idea why the usual stampings are not visible.

No doubt one of the experts will be able to shed a bit more light on this for you.

Regards

Brian

[johnbaz]

Hi,

The 'Duckbill' cocking lever end makes this an improved Mod D, with the Ser No dating it to 1912.

No idea why the usual stampings are not visible.

No doubt one of the experts will be able to shed a bit more light on this for you.

Regards

Brian

Thanks Brian but according to my Hillers guide, The Improved model B, The Light and the BSA Air Rifle have the same levers

I have a 'BSA Air Rifle' that has the text impressed on the cylinder but minus the (Improved Mod D), I also have a 1935 Standard mod2 which was etched and similar to this one, only has the serial# impressed...

BSA Air Rifle


BSA Standard


Cheers, John

[Josie & John]

It seems to be a D John - could be the stampings have worn after a century of use?

Is the bottom of the underlever marked with a patent no?

Kind regards,

John

[johnbaz]

It seems to be a D John - could be the stampings have worn after a century of use?

Is the bottom of the underlever marked with a patent no?

Kind regards,

John

Hi John

I suppose it couyld have worn off but I have a 1906 BSA Air Rifle that is rougher than this and it can easily be read

'Fraid there's nothing else stamped on it at all- Nothing on the lever


Cheers, John

[Binners]

Get shot of it Johnno,

Send it Sarf for spares

[johnbaz]

Get shot of it Johnno,

Send it Sarf for spares

Ha ha ha!!

Trust you Peter


I'm actually getting to like these so much that i'm cosidering selling off some of my newer stuff to buy more 'oldies'!!


John

[Mr. Scratch]

Hi, this looks remarkably similar to the one i'm researching at the mo, except this one has had a total refurb.......hmm i know but i am seriously tempted! Regards

[Binners]

I like the straight stock, and this one seems to have a nice grain too. lucky man John.......

[Josie & John]

Hi John

I suppose it couyld have worn off but I have a 1906 BSA Air Rifle that is rougher than this and it can easily be read

'Fraid there's nothing else stamped on it at all- Nothing on the lever


Cheers, John

Some were stamped deeper than others. I examined an early BSA last year, which had a U.S. patent stamped on the cylinder. The cylinder and this patent stamp were hardly discernible, which is a shame as the additional mark made this particular BSA an interesting one.

Kind regards,

John

[edbear2]

Hi all


If anyone recalls the BSA Improved mod D that I bought last weekend that was supposed to have been made in 1908, Well I looked in my Hillers guide to air rifles and things just don't seem to add up

The serial is 46495, according to my book this makes it manufactured in 1911 but in the book it says that it should be stamped on the top of the cylinder with 'The BSA Air Rifle (Improved model D) The Birmingham Small Arms Company Limited, Sole Manufacturers'

The only stamping is the serial number on the trigger block, It also says that it should be stamped 'LOAD' forward of the tap which it doesn't


Does this mean it's not an Improved model D?? I presume it's something similar to my 1936 BSA Standard that was etched rather than stamped!!


The gun..

Pic 1


The Cylinder


The load tap


Serial #



IOt's a bit of a quandry to me



John

Hi John, It's deffo a "D", are there are faint markings on the tap cover plate, or as John says on the cocking arm?...Also I can't believe it has been refinished so hard in the distant past that all the stampings are gone, as this would involve a fair amount of metal removal, but it could be a possibility It was polished at one stage. If it was it was done well as the tap end of the barrel forging is still defined. Also check under the cocking lever close to the pivot for an array of inspection stamps, and a two or normally 3 digit number stamped in. This should correspond to the same number which is stamped on the end of the tap when removed.

If the inspection a tap serial numbers are there, then it is very strange as you would expect them to be polished away, and the block serial number is pretty unmolested.

Some other possible if long shot explanations;

Maybe it was returned to the factory for a variety of reasons that meant it needed a new action, and this was about the time they started the etched cylinders, so it came back with etching which is long gone

Or it was a D that had it's action swapped for an etched gun yonks ago...the patina certainly looks like it has all been together generations.

Or even maybe someone sneaked it out of the factory in bits...Knibbsy will have the info on dispatch etc. at a price, which may be of help.

You could try rubbing it with paper and a crayon (like brass rubbing) on the cylinder to see if anything appears that you may not have noticed, or get it under a decent light and use a loupe in front of the loading hole, and on the cylinder.

All in all a bit of a mystery, I would love to see this up close and have a good look with a glass to do some detective work, are you going to the springer bash?

[Abasmajor]

Thanks Brian but according to my Hillers guide, The Improved model B, The Light and the BSA Air Rifle have the same levers

Hi John,

From around Ser No 17,000 the Improved Mod B and later Improved Mod Ds saw the introduction of the strengthening fences to the end of the cocking lever (as on your example) which helped prevent sideways movement of the latch with wear.

Regards

Brianmo

[johnbaz]

Hi John, It's deffo a "D", are there are faint markings on the tap cover plate, or as John says on the cocking arm?...Also I can't believe it has been refinished so hard in the distant past that all the stampings are gone, as this would involve a fair amount of metal removal, but it could be a possibility It was polished at one stage. If it was it was done well as the tap end of the barrel forging is still defined. Also check under the cocking lever close to the pivot for an array of inspection stamps, and a two or normally 3 digit number stamped in. This should correspond to the same number which is stamped on the end of the tap when removed.

If the inspection a tap serial numbers are there, then it is very strange as you would expect them to be polished away, and the block serial number is pretty unmolested.

Some other possible if long shot explanations;

Maybe it was returned to the factory for a variety of reasons that meant it needed a new action, and this was about the time they started the etched cylinders, so it came back with etching which is long gone

Or it was a D that had it's action swapped for an etched gun yonks ago...the patina certainly looks like it has all been together generations.

Or even maybe someone sneaked it out of the factory in bits...Knibbsy will have the info on dispatch etc. at a price, which may be of help.

You could try rubbing it with paper and a crayon (like brass rubbing) on the cylinder to see if anything appears that you may not have noticed, or get it under a decent light and use a loupe in front of the loading hole, and on the cylinder.

All in all a bit of a mystery, I would love to see this up close and have a good look with a glass to do some detective work, are you going to the springer bash?

Hi Ed

I think your first idea was correct, I took a couple of pics side by side with my 1906 Beesa rifle and noticed on the monitor, very faint 'LO' where it should say LOAD!!

Also, it looks bright-ish under the cocking lever!!

It looks like they really went to town on it but only missed the bit on the loading port

Some pix..

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

I'm hoping to go to the springer bash (have to get my cheque off to Mick soon!) I'll put it in the car with me

Hi John,

From around Ser No 17,000 the Improved Mod B and later Improved Mod Ds saw the introduction of the strengthening fences to the end of the cocking lever (as on your example) which helped prevent sideways movement of the latch with wear.

Regards

Brian

Many thanks Brian, I've much to learn about these old things



Cheers, John