Scottish Airgun Licensing Bill Introduced

[Rutty]

The Scottish Government have now published the Airgun Licencing Bill that they intend to become law. I do not think that it is realistic to believe that anyone from the rest of the UK will go through the faff of applying for a visitors permit to take an airgun to Scotland.

Rutty

[Stormdancer]

What a complete unjustified tangle of red tape BS.

This will have a dramatic effect on the sales of airguns in Scotland effecting both manufacturers and retailers.

This will dramatically reduce the amount of people taking up air rifle / gun shooting especially youngsters.

I can see many airgun clubs closing due to the hassle of all the restrictions.

The police are going to be a lot busier trying to enforce the new laws then enforcing the ones they had before.

I hope it costs them a fortune to try and enforce it.

I wonder how many dedicated airgunners in Scotland are thinking of moving South?

[thisisdonald]

As far as I can tell it has not yet been introduced. This is merely the bill that is to be introduced when the time comes. Theres some worrying bits in there... theres the part about disposal of confiscated or handed in guns to be disposed of in any manner the chief constable sees fit... sounds like a nice little earner to me!!!

[KeithW]

And it looks - on my first reading - as if private sales person to person will have to end - you can buy and sell only through RFD's

[neil180]

This country is done for! The criminalisation of the law abiding shooter is comical. The loonies, gang members and criminals don't care in the slightest about licensing laws - they will have their guns anyway so the only people they affect are the sporting law abiding shooter.
I used to be heavily into clay pigeon shooting until the Michael Ryan incident - the laws that were brought in after that saw the virtual decimation of clay pigeon shooting as we knew it back then. The same will happen with air rifles.

We need to fight every inch of the way against this - we need to stand up and be heard supporting those shooters in Scotland to get this restrictive and anti gun law thrown out before it is adopted by our own sheep in London!

[1952paul0]

is this doom for all?

[Rutty]

As far as I can tell it has not yet been introduced. This is merely the bill that is to be introduced when the time comes.

That is why the OP states:

The Scottish Government have now published the Airgun Licencing Bill that they intend to become law.

They have issued the Green Paper, had the consultation (and ignored it) and this is what they intend to legislate. It will now appear in the timetable for debate in the Scottish Parliament and following its passage will become law, probably within the next 12-18 months.

We need to fight every inch of the way against this - we need to stand up and be heard supporting those shooters in Scotland to get this restrictive and anti gun law thrown out before it is adopted by our own sheep in London!

You are years too late for that, barring a complete turn around in Scottish politics the bill will become law. However there is absolutely no reason to presume that similar legislation will be contemplated in England. The reasons for its adoption in Scotland are a mix of populist politics and posturing, enhanced public safety doesn't feature as more than a fig-leaf for what is repressive legislation.

BTW

It was interesting to watch Nicola Sturgeon being skewered by (fellow Scot) Andrew Neil on television at lunchtime. When Neil latched onto one of her comments describing it as having a "nasty ethnic edge"; referring to England; her reply was as convincing as a BNP spokesman claiming that his party isn't racist.

Rutty

[RobinC]

This Bill makes very scary reading, every one who shoots any thing, air, smallbore, fullbore, target or sporting needs to read this piece of madness. Its over beaurocratic, gives almost police state powers to the chief constables, uses wording like "any reason" to refuse or remove, visitors permits, approval of clubs, this is total madness.
I hope and don't believe it could happen in the UK but it needs the total support of all the shooting comunity across all disciplines to stop it, but seeing the madness from Scotland on independance I doubt it can be stopped there.
Could it happen here? You bet it could! During the last Labour government Graham Skinner introduced a private members bill which required all motor cycles whether used on the road or not to be road legal, taxed, insured, MOT'd, no exemptions, comply or compulsorarly crushed. A good idea? It would have ended motor sport in the UK, no racing, no motocross, speedway, it would have closed museums, private collections, it was stupidity at the highest level. It could never succeed you say, but despite opposition from his own government and also from the industry, all motorsport and many museums, the Bill passed the second reading unopposed!!!! When I complained to my MP, he admitted he had voted for it but had not even read it! He just thought it was a good idea and would get rid of kids on mini moto's! It was finally withdrawn, but look how far it got.
This stupid Bill must be fought hard.

[CameronWilson]

It's neither here nor there whether the licensing scheme is a good idea/enforceable or not.

87% of the Scottish people voted AGAINST this bill, and yet Kenny MacAskill has decided to press on regardless.

This is incontrovertible evidence that the Scottish Government is not a democracy.

[tufty]

The Scottish Government have now published the Airgun Licencing Bill that they intend to become law. I do not think that it is realistic to believe that anyone from the rest of the UK will go through the faff of applying for a visitors permit to take an airgun to Scotland.

Rutty

Yes, imagine the sheer terror of being stopped at the border with a Morini

[Hemmers]

I used to be heavily into clay pigeon shooting until the Michael Ryan incident - the laws that were brought in after that saw the virtual decimation of clay pigeon shooting as we knew it back then.

How so? Shotgun Certificates are relatively easy to get - no need to provide good reason or be a member of a club. So long as they can't demonstrate that you are unsuitable it's yours. The 1988 amendments included no significant new hurdles to gaining an SGC over the existing 1968 legislation. They put photos on the certificates and tweaked the conditions under which tickets can be revoked.

That's nothing really. Not compared to the rigmarole of joining a club, doing your probationary period, justifying a specific number of slots for specific calibres, 1-for-1 variations, closed conditions and inspections for land, etc.


Shotgun licensing is a remarkably simple and sensible piece of licensing that acts to prevent unsuitable individuals acquiring shotguns, but does not prevent you from pitching up to a local clay shoot (of the sort I used to trap for in a farmer's woods of a Sunday morning), or a commercial site, or on any land you have permission to shoot over and cracking on.

In short it doesn't stop you doing anything at all. Which is why there's 5 times more SGC holders than there are FAC, and why there's a thriving network of clay sites across the country.


However, the airgun licensing scheme is utterly pointless, makes the public no safer than they already are under the existing provisions, requires every Scout troop and Pony Club branch who shoot to register as Approved Air Weapon Clubs, and is easily circumvented by driving south a bit till you get to Englandshire.

[tufty]

How so? Shotgun Certificates are relatively easy to get - no need to provide good reason or be a member of a club. So long as they can't demonstrate that you are unsuitable it's yours. The 1988 amendments included no significant new hurdles to gaining an SGC over the existing 1968 legislation. They put photos on the certificates and tweaked the conditions under which tickets can be revoked.

That's nothing really. Not compared to the rigmarole of joining a club, doing your probationary period, justifying a specific number of slots for specific calibres, 1-for-1 variations, closed conditions and inspections for land, etc.


Shotgun licensing is a remarkably simple and sensible piece of licensing that acts to prevent unsuitable individuals acquiring shotguns, but does not prevent you from pitching up to a local clay shoot (of the sort I used to trap for in a farmer's woods of a Sunday morning), or a commercial site, or on any land you have permission to shoot over and cracking on.

In short it doesn't stop you doing anything at all. Which is why there's 5 times more SGC holders than there are FAC, and why there's a thriving network of clay sites across the country.


However, the airgun licensing scheme is utterly pointless, makes the public no safer than they already are under the existing provisions, requires every Scout troop and Pony Club branch who shoot to register as Approved Air Weapon Clubs, and is easily circumvented by driving south a bit till you get to Englandshire.

My FEO once told me that a SGC was a right,whereas an FAC was a privilege,hopefully if this daft bill goes through the same policy will be adopted for air guns as for shotguns....let's hope!

[Hemmers]

Read the bill. Unfortunately it's based on Section 1 (FAC), not Section 2 (SGC). It needs to go away and die, but having got this far that is unfortunately rather unlikely.

[gingernut]

S.24 of the bill,Transactions ,refers to Great Britain!!
It stops sales of airguns to buyers in England.
Thats if I read it correctly -as the Bill does make your brain hurt.

[Rutty]

S.24 of the bill,Transactions ,refers to Great Britain!!
It stops sales of airguns to buyers in England.
Thats if I read it correctly -as the Bill does make your brain hurt.

Not S24, but S25 and it is the same as the current UK law (VCRA 2006 S32(2)) that requires face-to-face transfer from RFD to non RFD buyer.

Rutty