Steel framed Webley Premier - at last!

[Mzee]

Good morning chaps. I'm just having a coffee & admiring the latest addition to my little collection of Webley air pistols, a B series Premier. I already had a Mk2 Premier & had been on the look out for a steel framed one for a while. I called into my friendly local gunsmith's in Brighouse yesterday for a spring for a Relum Tornado I'd been given & am getting up & running again in memory of its late owner (that's another tale) & the lovely lady in the shop lifted out this Premier from under the counter & said, "I think you were looking for one of these." It came complete with its original box, an orange & white tin of Webley pellets (lid's stuck on at the moment so I haven't had a look at them yet), an un-shot at Webley target & a W & S air pistol parts price list. Too good to pass by. When I got it home I took it out into the garden to try out & it took an inordinate effort to cock it compared with the other Webleys I own, so I tried a few drops of oil & tried again. No better & it now squeaked loudly. One of my Greyhounds came rushing out, thinking I'd brought him a new squeaky toy home! So, this morning I decided to strip it down & lubricate it. I've never had one in bits before, but soon had the barrel (.22) & the front end & spring out, but the piston took a bit of gentle persuasion. No rust or anything nasty anywhere, just oil. So I cleaned it all off & gave it a smear of LP2 & put it back together again........eventually, & it's now silky smooth to cock & fire.
Now I come to the point of all this rambling. It must have taken me a good half hour to get the front end back on. I was pushing against the spring pressure, trying to engage the thread in the end of the cylinder & couldn't locate it for ages. Once it picked up the thread I was away & soon had it all back together. The piston, which had been stuck when I wanted to extract it, had just slid in, no problem. Gentlemen, is there an easy way to locate the end/spring guide or does it come with experience? Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you. Mzee

[Josie & John]

Congrats on your new acquisition. It sounds like a nice example and there's nothing quite like examining a boxed Webley that has a number of accessories when you get it home! As to your question, the end plug should engage the threads of the air cylinder easily and it should not take more than a couple of attempts to bring the two together. Could the spring be an aftermarket one which is overpowered? Perhaps the threads have cross threaded? If you have cause to strip the pistol again, try reassembling without the spring to see if there is any damage to the screw threads. If you still experience problems without spring pressure, that suggests damaged screw threads.

Kind regards,

John

[Mzee]

Congrats on your new acquisition. It sounds like a nice example and there's nothing quite like examining a boxed Webley that has a number of accessories when you get it home! As to your question, the end plug should engage the threads of the air cylinder easily and it should not take more than a couple of attempts to bring the two together. Could the spring be an aftermarket one which is overpowered? Perhaps the threads have cross threaded? If you have cause to strip the pistol again, try reassembling without the spring to see if there is any damage to the screw threads. If you still experience problems without spring pressure, that suggests damaged screw threads.

Kind regards,

John

Hi John,
Thanks for your prompt reply. After a few attempts to get the end plug (thanks for supplying the correct term) back on I did indeed try it without the spring & it picked up the threads immediately & screwed right in without a problem.I don't think the spring is not the original as the pistol appears to be little used. That leaves me, so there's probably a bit of a knack to it. When I've nothing to do I'll strip another pistol, now I know how to do it, & see if I can improve my puny performance.
Best wishes,
Glyn

[ggggr]

Congrats on your new acquisition. It sounds like a nice example and there's nothing quite like examining a boxed Webley that has a number of accessories when you get it home! As to your question, the end plug should engage the threads of the air cylinder easily and it should not take more than a couple of attempts to bring the two together. Could the spring be an aftermarket one which is overpowered? Perhaps the threads have cross threaded? If you have cause to strip the pistol again, try reassembling without the spring to see if there is any damage to the screw threads. If you still experience problems without spring pressure, that suggests damaged screw threads.

Kind regards,

John

Pretty much as John suggests ^. It is always easier to check whether it locates ok without the spring in. A lot of older guns with threaded trigger blocks are sometimes hard to locate/start, through years of wear/abuse.
I have found the Webley pistols to be oversprung, in an effort to get a lot of power (relatively speaking) out of the design. If you cut the spring down so it just comes to the barrel pivot hole or end of the cylinder, when it is inserted into the piston, you will hardly notice the power drop and you will have the bonus that it will be easier to cock, your trigger will be better and your sear will last longer.

[Mzee]

Pretty much as John suggests ^. It is always easier to check whether it locates ok without the spring in. A lot of older guns with threaded trigger blocks are sometimes hard to locate/start, through years of wear/abuse.
I have found the Webley pistols to be oversprung, in an effort to get a lot of power (relatively speaking) out of the design. If you cut the spring down so it just comes to the barrel pivot hole or end of the cylinder, when it is inserted into the piston, you will hardly notice the power drop and you will have the bonus that it will be easier to cock, your trigger will be better and your sear will last longer.

Thanks very much, ggggr. I'll follow your suggestion on a rather rough Mk1 I'm thinking of having a go at next. Pardon my ignorance, but having sawn(?) off the end of the spring to reduce its length, how does one shape it so it sits flat onto whatever it's up against without the cut end digging into anything? I'm new to this job, as you may gather.
Best wishes
Glyn

[Rickenbacker]

Scroll down >here< for Steve Pope's excellent guide to spring shortening.

The MK1 sounds a good candidate for sping reduction, as the older cocking link design makes it the hardest Webley to cock. To the point that .22 barrels can get bent simply by cocking a stiff MK1.

Personally, I'd be careful of reducing a Premier's spring, because I find they can shoot off to the right beyond the sight's adjustment when low on FPS. But that might be just me.

[Mzee]

Scroll down >here< for Steve Pope's excellent guide to spring shortening.

The MK1 sounds a good candidate for sping reduction, as the older cocking link design makes it the hardest Webley to cock. To the point that .22 barrels can get bent simply by cocking a stiff MK1.

Personally, I'd be careful of reducing a Premier's spring, because I find they can shoot off to the right beyond the sight's adjustment when low on FPS. But that might be just me.

Hi Rickenbacker,
Just the job. Thank you for the information.
Best wishes
Glyn

[CLOGGER]

So glad you're pleased with your Premier. I've recently picked one up myself at a suitably cheap price - I managed to beat down the price after trying it in the shop when the .22 pellet kind of "plopped" out of the muzzle when the pistol was fired. When stripped it turned out to be bone dry inside (totally devoid of any lube) but no rust and only slight scratch marks on the inside of the cylinder bore.

It's a series "E" with brown grips which are unmarked and the bluing is pretty well complete. I had always wanted a "Prem", ever since my best mate had an alloy framed one from new back in the mid 70's, but I ended up buying a BSA Scorpion instead (which I still own and shoot from time to time).

It's nice to be able to compare this old Premier with a .22 Webley Tempest (Brummy made not Turkish)!) that I've had for a few years. The Premier really feels like a solid piece of engineering, tho' the Tempest is smoother to cock and also has more clout. Perhaps the Premier's spring is ready for retirement, but it looked in good fettle.

All this is spurring me on to try and resurrect the very sad old smoothbore Junior which was given to me over 30 years ago!!! If I remember correctly, one of the trigger sear pins is missing and still has a nail shank replacing it, OMG! It was like that when I got it, honest.

BTW, I'm an ex-pat Mirfield guy myself and have only just come back from a weekend there with my dear old mum - perhaps we could excahange notes the next time I'm back in Lee Green?

ATB, Clogger