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Thread: Is this legal??

  1. #1
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    Is this legal??

    Few weeks ago at a local Car boot saw a bloke with what looked like a very old Flint lock rifle.
    Had a chat with him, really nice chap, the rifle looked like it had had a bit of work in the past but whilst it looked like a Flint lock it was a percussion cap firing thingy.
    So to my point what's the law on transporting / owning one?
    Not that I want one I was just curious, in case I win the lottery and need one for above the fire in my hunting lodge

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    Will still be a black powder rifle so unless the barrel has been welded internally I'd imagine it would be a classed a s a section 1 firearm

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    Almost certainly an antique, in which case can be held without FAC, provided that you do not intend to fire it. You can hang it on the wall if you want to.

    If you do intend to fire it than it is either (if rifled) S1 or SGC (if smooth - even if you would fire single ball or bullet)

    The law is a bit odd here, since you could have a pair of near perfectly identical antique guns, one of which you shoot, so it is on FAC and must be kept locked up etc., and the other you do not fire so you can hang it on the wall!

    Would take a lot more detail to be sure, as it could be a reproduction and these are all S1, however this is unlikely since it would probably be on someone's FAC. Did you get a maker's name?

    Could be an interesting piece as it might have started out as a flintlock and been later converted to percussion (it was not uncommon for owners to "upgrade" their guns as technology changed).

    If you are looking for a wall hanger, then a gun in non-firing condition (usually rusted or badly pitted) can be had for less than £200, depending upon how nice it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnup View Post
    Almost certainly an antique, in which case can be held without FAC, provided that you do not intend to fire it.

    If you are looking for a wall hanger, then a gun in non-firing condition (usually rusted or badly pitted) can be had for less than £200, depending upon how nice it is.
    Thanks
    He paid £15 for it!
    Its not my cup of tea but it was nice and I can see the appeal I was just wondering in case he was stopped on the way home etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by winchman View Post
    Thanks
    He paid £15 for it!
    Its not my cup of tea but it was nice and I can see the appeal I was just wondering in case he was stopped on the way home etc
    Snatch his arm off - it's worth at least that!
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    Turnup. Just for interest how would "antique" be defined.

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    The rifle is classed as an obsolete calibre gun, you can own legally without FAC but would break the law should you attempt aquire any.
    Weihrauch HW97 .177, Weihrauch HW80 .22, Weihrauch HW77 .22

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    Quote Originally Posted by deejayuu View Post
    Turnup. Just for interest how would "antique" be defined.

    HO guidance to police has some information on this.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...he-police-2012

    (The link is actually to the 2014 version)

    It's a bit of a tricky area as there is no legal definition of antique, however muzzle loaders manufactured pre 1939 are generally considered to qualify.
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    Quote Originally Posted by winchman View Post
    Thanks
    He paid £15 for it!
    Its not my cup of tea but it was nice and I can see the appeal I was just wondering in case he was stopped on the way home etc
    Why would a presumably law-abiding citizen be stopped on the way home from a car boot sale?

    Do the police not have to have what they call reasonable suspicion/grounds/just cause for doing such a thing?

    tac

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    Quote Originally Posted by para View Post
    The rifle is classed as an obsolete calibre gun, you can own legally without FAC but would break the law should you attempt aquire any.
    Beg to differ - please cite source. There is no such thing as an obsolete calibre.

    There are exemptions for cartridge guns in obsolete centrefire and rimfire chamberings, and all pinfire and needlefire chamberings. Such guns can be traded without restriction or licensing - the cartridges themselves require certification.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnup View Post
    HO guidance to police has some information on this.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...he-police-2012

    (The link is actually to the 2014 version)

    It's a bit of a tricky area as there is no legal definition of antique, however muzzle loaders manufactured pre 1939 are generally considered to qualify.
    The actual date is the day before the outbreak of WW2. If the gun was manufactured the day before it is classed as an antique. If it was made the day war was declared or after it is no longer classed as an antique.

    Obsolete calibres are not subject to the firearms act. (As someone asked), eg you can have a Martini Henry 45/577 as a curio. It only becomes S1 if you want to use it, as you said about the antique off the bootsale.

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