BSA Air Rifle (First Batch - 1905) Lincoln Jeffries patent, Serial 1946

[chieffool]

I like your standard with the aperture sight. Only just occurred to me that the BSA Aperture sight (BSA 22) was designed to fit on the wood on top of the 'pistol stock' and that the straight stock guns could only mount by filing a platform on to the top of the trigger block - as with your gun

[chieffool]

.......

Back in the early 1900's, British gun companies, especially BSA, could produce guns with tolerances (when needed) in the 10ths of thousands off an inch. Generally air rifle pellets of the late 1800's /early 1900's were dire, as air rifles were little better than toys in many cases, and many were smoothbore, but the advent of the Lincoln rifle, and it's manufacture by a "proper" company, BSA, who also made their identical, but re-badged version, lead to people taking seriously pellet design and manufacture.

I have weighed and measured small batches of very early Adder and BSA waisted pellets, and weight and dimension tolerances / variations were up there with most modern stuff in terms of accuracy!
.......

https://www.flickr.com/photos/312284...57608030264100

ATB, ED

Ed,
Many thanks for this link. Just finished reading it through properly - I mean the section on Adder pellets (though looked through all the other ads and leaflets as well for Webley, Diana, BSA, etc). Odd to think in 1909 they had such a 'sophisticated' concept and understanding of the pressure differentials in a pellet design. The side view cutaway shows a pellet that is 'squarer' than most available now, but the artist's rendition of the likely pressure wave is surprisingly accurate ballistically. I know that photography had existed for several decades, but nothing 'high speed' in terms of imagery would occur for several more. So where and how did they achieve such a perceptive interpretation?

Truly impressed with the quoted tolerances in the pellet production: 2-3 thousandths of an inch in pellet skirt.

[Abasmajor]

I like your standard with the aperture sight. Only just occurred to me that the BSA Aperture sight (BSA 22) was designed to fit on the wood on top of the 'pistol stock' and that the straight stock guns could only mount by filing a platform on to the top of the trigger block - as with your gun

Hi,

The No 12 sight is an original, factory fitted option on the Standard Pattern when the smaller No 21/21a sight was also available as a factory fitted extra.

Here are a couple of pictures of one of my Light Patterns that I have now fitted with the slightly later No 8 sight together with the 6 hole hole eyepiece. The No 8 sight can be easily fitted to the Straight hand stock and really improves use for older eyes in variable light conditions.

I also have a the small plate (bottom picture) which was used to mount the sight on live firearms at the time, but there is no evidence from contemporary advertising to suggest it was ever used when mounting the sight on an air rifle.

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psrjnej4qw.jpg


http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psfx30sb7g.jpg


http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psuej2ozru.jpg

Regards

Brian

[chieffool]

Hi,
...
Here are a couple of pictures of one of my Light Patterns that I have now fitted with the slightly later No 8 sight together with the 6 hole hole eyepiece. The No 8 sight can be easily fitted to the Straight hand stock and really improves use for older eyes in variable light conditions.

I also have a the small plate (bottom picture) which was used to mount the sight on live firearms at the time, but there is no evidence from contemporary advertising to suggest it was ever used when mounting the sight on an air rifle.

I do like the look of aperture sights. I'd feel 'uncomfortable' fitting to my 1905 Standard as couldn't bear to mark and drill the 'hand' on the stock, so like the velcro solution you seem to have in place there. However, I think i'll look out for a very battered example of a gun that i can refurb, and so won't mind fitting one then: probably a No. 12 for a 'pistol' stock - or a No. 8 for a straight.

Found this link I (in case you haven't seen) ref the No. 8 aperture sight. If you scan down onto page 2 it gives measurements (with a thread of cotton) on how to fit the sight. Did you remove the rear sight by the loading port?
http://www.rifleman.org.uk/BSA_sight...sories.htm#No8

[Abasmajor]

Hi,

I fully understand your reservations with regard to mounting the aperture sight and only fitted the No 8 to the Light Pattern I shoot most regularly. This is a 1912 example and has little finish remaining, but still shoots well. The sight is attached to the stock using screws with the velcro only being there to prevent marking the stock when the sight is folded down.

I did remove and blank off the original rearsight on this rifle to prevent interference with the sight picture at the close range (25yds) the rifle is normally shot at. I also fitted a foresight with interchangeable blades.

I have a much nicer Light Pattern fitted with the standard No10 rearsight, which does see less use due to the need to preserve its 'collection' condition, but even this still gets an outing every now and again.

Regards

Brian

[edbear2]

Ed,
Many thanks for this link. Just finished reading it through properly - I mean the section on Adder pellets (though looked through all the other ads and leaflets as well for Webley, Diana, BSA, etc). Odd to think in 1909 they had such a 'sophisticated' concept and understanding of the pressure differentials in a pellet design. The side view cutaway shows a pellet that is 'squarer' than most available now, but the artist's rendition of the likely pressure wave is surprisingly accurate ballistically. I know that photography had existed for several decades, but nothing 'high speed' in terms of imagery would occur for several more. So where and how did they achieve such a perceptive interpretation?

Truly impressed with the quoted tolerances in the pellet production: 2-3 thousandths of an inch in pellet skirt.

They were very clever people and big on ballistics even then.

In engineering terms the quality and grades of steel used, and the use of forgings (the barrel is a multi-step draw down forging on the prewar guns) are ahead of anything available now. The guns were expensive new, with many club teams sharing a single or two guns. Browsing a catalogue I have here which includes firearms, the bore gauges you could buy from BSA were guaranteed to 0.0001" (a tenth of a thou) and the optical measuring machine they used in production could measure to 0.00001" (one hundred - thousandth of an inch)....In 1911!

This accuracy in mass production was by huge investment in accurate machine tools meaning total interchangeability, with MOD inspectors in WW1 able to pull 30 odd Lewis guns off a huge pile, strip them totally, chuck all the bits in a pile and then re-assemble with every gun working perfectly...Same with the air rifles excepting the taps which were hand lapped in and matched to the action (if you pull your tap it will have a number stamped on the end, this same number will be found under the barrel close to the cocking are pivot jaws.

If you are into engineering, try and the the book "The other battle" by Donovan M Ward...They ask stupid money on ABE and the like, but you can find them on the bay and elsewhere for under £30 if you are patient, It is an absolute must read if you are interested in engineering and BSA!

ATB, Ed

[chieffool]

They were very clever people and big on ballistics even then....

....Browsing a catalogue I have here which includes firearms, the bore gauges you could buy from BSA were guaranteed to 0.0001" (a tenth of a thou) and the optical measuring machine they used in production could measure to 0.00001" (one hundred - thousandth of an inch)....In 1911!

....If you are into engineering, try and the the book "The other battle" by Donovan M Ward...They ask stupid money on ABE and the like, but you can find them on the bay and elsewhere for under £30 if you are patient, It is an absolute must read if you are interested in engineering and BSA!

ATB, Ed

I'll try and track down a copy. One hundred thousandth of an inch tolerances is as hard to produce and maintain in mass manufacturing terms, as it is to measure. Looks just as impressive in millimetres: 0.00001 inch = 0.000254mm !

I remember reading a thread in January on this board discussing the longest 'sniper' shot taken. The army's current weapon preference for this role now sits with the L115A3 chambering an 8.59mm cartridge, with 1100+m considered a normal operating range (and well below the 'record' distance). However, it is odd to think that in 1911 they were capable of manufacturing tolerances which could support today's operational criteria and performance.

[chieffool]

Hi,

I fully understand your reservations with regard to mounting the aperture sight and only fitted the No 8 to the Light Pattern I shoot most regularly. This is a 1912 example and has little finish remaining, but still shoots well. The sight is attached to the stock using screws with the velcro only being there to prevent marking the stock when the sight is folded down.

I did remove and blank off the original rearsight on this rifle to prevent interference with the sight picture at the close range (25yds) the rifle is normally shot at. I also fitted a foresight with interchangeable blades.

I have a much nicer Light Pattern fitted with the standard No10 rearsight, which does see less use due to the need to preserve its 'collection' condition, but even this still gets an outing every now and again.

Regards

Brian

I agree. It is such an odd balance to strike. On the one hand i want a gun to always attain the best it can be, but I also want to preserve a level of originality where possible that not only maintains the patina commensurate with age and usage, but also evokes that 'snapshot' in time you get from handling and using a gun which is basically 'undisturbed'. That's why this rather lovely example is going to be used as often as possible in its current state, while I look for another gun and sight combination (BSA 12 or BSA 8 depending largely on stock shape) which i can combine within a restoration project i've yet to find.
Relishing the task - looking forward to the hunt!