vintage style aperture sights... i'm looking - but has anyone ever 'made' one?

[chieffool]

I like vintage BSA underlevers. My gathering obsession stems from my recent purchase this year of a very original straight stock first batch LJ Patent which will remain original.

BUT i have two other BSA projects - a (hopefully) recently acquired 'long tom' and an Improved Model D i have my eye on.
Both of these will require different levels of work.
And I'd like to fit at least one of these with an aperture sight.

So i'm already looking. I suppose a BSA No. 22 would be 'neat' mounted on the top of the wood on the pistol grip of either of these...
...but there do seem to be quite a few potential candidates from turn-of-the-century sources such as BSA, Parker Hale, Lyman, Winchester, LSA - and all incorporating a variety of flipup and/or 'tang' systems.

Hard to find though, aren't they? Elusive little critters.

So: apart from constantly searching (and gazing longingly at the odd one i miss on the US version of 'theebay' where grown ups are allowed to bid on 'gun parts' and even have the items sent to them should they win!)....

...i have to ask: Has anyone ever made one?
Or even made their own version of an aperture sight for this type of gun?

[daveh]

Hi ,one of my BSAs arrived with a cutout in the stock but no sight. I found a flip-up ,originally fitted to a Lee-Enfield 303, on the bay. It arrived without its base but I made a simple one. Its now fitted to the gun and it works and does not look out of place. If I remember rightly the sight cost £10. A bargin.
Regards, Daveh

[Josie & John]

Now this is a favourite subject of mine and I have admitted to having somewhat of a sight fetish at times

I have seen Lyman, Greener and LSA peep sights on BSAs as well as BSA's own. Some may have been on rifles for over 100 years, whilst others may have been fitted more recently.

BSA peep sights were ideally factory fitted and I would not recommend retro fitting one today, even if you were lucky enough to find an original replacement. Some BSA rifles can be found with a cutout in either the top of the trigger block (No 12 sight) or just behind it (No 21a or No 22) where some previous owner has removed all or part of the sight and personally I would only look to replace sights in these instances if I could find a suitable replacement. There is a member on here that made an excellent repro No 21a sight for Binners but I'm not sure if he's looking to make any more, which is why I haven't mentioned his name.

The BSA No 8 Aperture sight was made in several heights (the short to medium stems being ideal for BSA air rifles) and you can carefully fit one above the pistol grip, in the 'hollow' behind the trigger block. Both Edbear and I have done this on between the wars BSA Standards and although the rifle is not as comfortable to hold when in the aim, this is a contemporary way of fitting an original sight to an original gun. A Parker Hale foresight with interchangeable elements can complete the set up if your rifle dates from the mid 1930s.

Or...you can see if you can find an original aperture sighted rifle at one of the fairs or on here (try a Wanted ad). The Bisley Phoenix is a 3 day arms fair, which is on over the Bank Holiday weekend next week and well worth the journey IMHO.

Kind regards,

John

[silva]

Ten years or more ago, John Knibbs used to sell reproduction, Bsa 21 sights, so there must be someone out there with the capacity to make a batch, unless they have passed away. However as John rightly points out, the factory inletting of the wood was beautifully executed and it would be a shame for a whole rash of original stocks to be altered !

[pegasus]

I like vintage BSA underlevers. My gathering obsession stems from my recent purchase this year of a very original straight stock first batch LJ Patent which will remain original.

BUT i have two other BSA projects - a (hopefully) recently acquired 'long tom' and an Improved Model D i have my eye on.
Both of these will require different levels of work.
And I'd like to fit at least one of these with an aperture sight.

So i'm already looking. I suppose a BSA No. 22 would be 'neat' mounted on the top of the wood on the pistol grip of either of these...
...but there do seem to be quite a few potential candidates from turn-of-the-century sources such as BSA, Parker Hale, Lyman, Winchester, LSA - and all incorporating a variety of flipup and/or 'tang' systems.

Hard to find though, aren't they? Elusive little critters.

So: apart from constantly searching (and gazing longingly at the odd one i miss on the US version of 'theebay' where grown ups are allowed to bid on 'gun parts' and even have the items sent to them should they win!)....

...i have to ask: Has anyone ever made one?
Or even made their own version of an aperture sight for this type of gun?

Ah Richard, I did try to warn you that these fine rifles do not like to live alone, the minimum family number is three. ATB John

[Abasmajor]

Hi,

I fitted a BSA No 8 sight with a 6 hole iris to the BSA Mod Light Pattern pictured below to compensate for my failing eye sight. I also fitted a PH
tunnel foresight and removed the original rear sight to avoid interference with the sight picture. The No 8 sights can be fitted quite easily to the' Straight Hand' stock without too much modification and keeps the whole thing more original. The No 8 do still appear at Arms Fairs etc, but are usually priced at around £80 with perhaps another £40 or so if you want the variable iris. BSA produced a small base plate (also pictured below) for the No 8 which made it easier to remove the sight on a regular basis. I believe this was intended for use on their live firing rifles rather than air rifles as contemporary advertising illustrations showing the sight fitted to an air rifle do not seem to include the plate. The small pieces of Velcro shown in the pictures make it more comfortable on the web of the thumb and first finger when holding the rifle.

The final pictures are of an LSA ( London Small Arms) sight of similar age which I picked up for much less than the No 8. Although not a BSA sight it would still look OK on a Mod D especially if functionality was more important than originality.


http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psrjnej4qw.jpg

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psfx30sb7g.jpg

BSA Mod D Light Pattern with No 8 Sight

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...psuej2ozru.jpg

BSA No 8 Base plate.

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...pse76b80e0.jpg

http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7d9781cd.jpg

LSA Sight

Regards

Brian

[deejayuu]

Well here's one made earlier




If memory serves it's Mk iv. The last one was a slight improvement and threw up another modification well worth trying.

Do you intend having a go at one?

[chieffool]

Now this is a favourite subject of mine and I have admitted to having somewhat of a sight fetish at times

I have seen Lyman, Greener and LSA peep sights on BSAs as well as BSA's own. Some may have been on rifles for over 100 years, whilst others may have been fitted more recently....

.......
Or...you can see if you can find an original aperture sighted rifle at one of the fairs or on here (try a Wanted ad). The Bisley Phoenix is a 3 day arms fair, which is on over the Bank Holiday weekend next week and well worth the journey IMHO.

Kind regards,

John

I'm hoping to make it to the Phoenix Bisley Fair. Fingers crossed - and hopefully i can spot something suitable. The LJ Patent i have (courtesy of Pegasus' as previous custodian) will remain original and untouched. For me its function as an 'original' gun is to serve as a direct and very tactile link to the past. Gives me a real 'buzz' to own and shoot it.

But i also believe these rifles are so well made, i see nothing inappropriate in making one shoot to the best of my ability. That doesn't mean i'm contemplating a laser dot or scope, but an aperture sight would be great - and it doesn't necessarily have to be a BSA to be suitable. Saw a fantastic Winchester 1894 flip up 'tang' - but missed bidding. So will have a good rummage at the Phoenix.

And - i have to admit, the thought of making my own based on a design contemporary to the period is intriguing.

[chieffool]

Ten years or more ago, John Knibbs used to sell reproduction, Bsa 21 sights, so there must be someone out there with the capacity to make a batch, unless they have passed away. However as John rightly points out, the factory inletting of the wood was beautifully executed and it would be a shame for a whole rash of original stocks to be altered !

I really DO like the look of the BSA 21. Such a neat solution when fitted onto the top of a pistol grip BSA stock. I know i could do a very good installation of one of these...
...anyone got one they would consider parting with?

(no harm in asking)

[chieffool]

Hi,

I fitted a BSA No 8 sight with a 6 hole iris to the BSA Mod Light Pattern pictured below to compensate for my failing eye sight. I also fitted a PH
tunnel foresight and removed the original rear sight to avoid interference with the sight picture. The No 8 sights can be fitted quite easily to the' Straight Hand' stock without too much modification and keeps the whole thing more original. The No 8 do still appear at Arms Fairs etc, but are usually priced at around £80 with perhaps another £40 or so if you want the variable iris. BSA produced a small base plate (also pictured below) for the No 8 which made it easier to remove the sight on a regular basis. I believe this was intended for use on their live firing rifles rather than air rifles as contemporary advertising illustrations showing the sight fitted to an air rifle do not seem to include the plate. The small pieces of Velcro shown in the pictures make it more comfortable on the web of the thumb and first finger when holding the rifle.

The final pictures are of an LSA ( London Small Arms) sight of similar age which I picked up for much less than the No 8. Although not a BSA sight it would still look OK on a Mod D especially if functionality was more important than originality.

...

Regards

Brian

I remember seeing some of these pics from a previous post of yours when i started digging around for info. Great pics too!

[chieffool]

Well here's one made earlier




If memory serves it's Mk iv. The last one was a slight improvement and threw up another modification well worth trying.

Do you intend having a go at one?

OH HELL YESSSS!!! Did you make that?

I think I could do that. Fantastic pics.
That really is not beyond the possibility of simple vice, hacksaw and file work.
And I love the pics of the pieces laid out separately.

If it isn't a completely daft and weird request, could you possibly lay them out on a photocopier to give me access to a 'flat plan'.
Cheeky to ask, but that's probably all i need as a starting point.

[Josie & John]

Here's another potential idea.

R&K Stockcraft of Milton Keynes had a collection a year to 2 ago, which included 3 rifles with home made aperture sights. There was a Webley Mk 3 and the 2 BSAs I have pictured here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eiaeq4sd6..._5VhdZw0a?dl=0

As you can see the bracket is a little Heath Robinson in appearance but it functions very well. An open sight was adapted to an aperture unit and fixed to a bracket, which was contoured to the trigger block and fixed through the trigger block. All someone did was fix a longer screw through the trigger block, thereby not spoiling the rifles and ensuring they could be returned to original spec at a stroke. I bought the late CS (with saw handled stock) and you never know - the No 2 Standard may still be there. If not, this may provide you with some ideas.

There is also a photo included of Josie shooting a BSA No 1 Standard, which is fitted with a BSA No 22 sight and 1930s BSA tunnel foresight. This rifle is an excellent bell target 'Match Model'.

There are a couple of aperture sighted BSAs coming up in Holts' next aucton in June that may be worth a look.

Jo and I will be at the Phoenix on the Friday and possibly the Saturday, so please remember to say hi.

John

[chieffool]

Hi ,one of my BSAs arrived with a cutout in the stock but no sight. I found a flip-up ,originally fitted to a Lee-Enfield 303, on the bay. It arrived without its base but I made a simple one. Its now fitted to the gun and it works and does not look out of place. If I remember rightly the sight cost £10. A bargin.
Regards, Daveh

cheers for the pic you emailed. For all you unable to see, a very neat job indeed and doesn't look at all out of place. Mounted on the top of the pistol grip behind the trigger block like you would with a BSA 22/21/21A.

QUESTION (anyone?):
I've been looking at an early BSA catalogue on Peep sights, and on page 9 of the catalogue (page 5 of the PDF as per link below) it shows BSA 21A as specified for 'air rifle'. Does this mean BSA 22 wasn't?
http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Images/BS...0Catalogue.pdf

[Josie & John]

QUESTION (anyone?):
I've been looking at an early BSA catalogue on Peep sights, and on page 9 of the catalogue (page 5 of the PDF as per link below) it shows BSA 21A as specified for 'air rifle'. Does this mean BSA 22 wasn't?
http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Images/BS...0Catalogue.pdf

The No 22 was also intended for BSA air rifles but came after the No 21a. I've pinned the introduction of the No 22 to a point between 1921 and 1923.

IMHO the No 22 was not as good as the 21a as the latter was fully finger adjustable laterally and vertically, whereas the 22 had limited lateral adjustment. You had to unlock the rear securing screw and move the sight left or right. Still, good enough once set and well worth acquiring if you get the chance.

(Told you this was a favourite subject of mine!)

John

[chieffool]

Here's another potential idea.

R&K Stockcraft of Milton Keynes had a collection a year to 2 ago, which included 3 rifles with home made aperture sights. There was a Webley Mk 3 and the 2 BSAs I have pictured here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eiaeq4sd6..._5VhdZw0a?dl=0

As you can see the bracket is a little Heath Robinson in appearance but it functions very well. An open sight was adapted to an aperture unit and fixed to a bracket, which was contoured to the trigger block and fixed through the trigger block. All someone did was fix a longer screw through the trigger block, thereby not spoiling the rifles and ensuring they could be returned to original spec at a stroke. I bought the late CS (with saw handled stock) and you never know - the No 2 Standard may still be there. If not, this may provide you with some ideas.

There is also a photo included of Josie shooting a BSA No 1 Standard, which is fitted with a BSA No 22 sight and 1930s BSA tunnel foresight. This rifle is an excellent bell target 'Match Model'.

There are a couple of aperture sighted BSAs coming up in Holts' next aucton in June that may be worth a look.

Jo and I will be at the Phoenix on the Friday and possibly the Saturday, so please remember to say hi.

John

I'm hoping for saturday if possible as need to meet up with Binners (though day will be chosen realistically by him) to finalise a recent purchase. I'll let you know. Many thanks for the pics - Josie (and the BSA No 22) looks great......
....but Oh Dear.... that homemade sight - did you say 'Heath Robinson'? More like 'Anne Robinson': and definitely the Weakest Link!

I do think function and form dictate a solution should be pretty, otherwise i'd be making something out of an old sardine can and gaffer-taping it on!