Chiappa FAS 6004

[Hombre]

Hi

Has anybody had experience of both the 'old' FAS 604 Mk2 and the new FAS 6004 from Chiappa?

They look pretty much the same to me but how do they compare in terms of cosmetic finish and shooting performance?
Is the loading pressure similar - in one video on YouTube it looks as if it might be a little easier on the new version?

Any pointers appreciated

ATB
Hombre

[Amac]

I haven't owned the "original"model, but from all accounts the latest version is pretty much the original gun although now mass produced. I enjoy shooting mine, which is mega consistent and could I reckon give much more expensive PCPs a run for their money in the right hands.

Andy

[zooma]

The FAS 604 (mk1 and mk 2) are excellent match pistols that are very much in demand, but the newer 6004 model has had some bad press and is not considered to be as good or well made as the FAS 604.

If you get a chance - try them both - then you can make your own judgement.

[zooma]

Here are some pictures of Mk 2 FAS 604 match pistols:-



http://bobsairguns.com/index.php?opt...lery&Itemid=43

[Hombre]

Thanks Guys

Amac - Very pleased to hear that your new 6004 is giving you pleasure and shooting well

Zooma - Thanks for the input. I'm aware of the merits of the FAS 604 Mk2 as I owned one for a couple of years.
It could have been the very twin in every respect of the little gem on your website.
Regrettably, in a moment of weakness, in more ways than one, I sold it. Something I had promised myself I would never do.
Do you still own yours?

I have also read several articles and threads on various sites regarding the FAS 6004 which are at best mixed in the amount of useful, comparative information they provide. Does seem though, that as might be expected in this day and age, corners have been cut and build quality is not quite what it was. At the current price though, my interest was more than a little piqued. Hence my post on this 'board of boards' requesting info from anyone who had shot both.

Maybe I'll get to do this myself but in the interim anyone out there able to speak from practical experience of both?

Thanks again chaps

[Iain K D]

I can’t make any comparison to the original FAS604, but I thought it might be useful to give my initial impressions of the new 6004 I’ve recently got – the ambidextrous version (even though I’m right-handed).

I’ve had a couple of sessions with it now at the club, and got it pretty much zeroed at 10 metres. Cocking effort is less than the HW75 and HW40, or the Gamo Compact, and it doesn’t snap shut on you when closing (the ’75 is pretty good in this regard as well). Having said that though, it doesn’t always open – not drawing the piston out, that is, but the very first movement of the overlever – or close smoothly when cocked. This is, I think, a combination of the overlever catch not quite clearing the steel inset it engages with at the rear of the frame, and the side of the frame rubbing against the inside of the overlever.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...hiappa/01A.jpg

You can see that the valve housing is left unfinished – bright – and it also looks like the bottom edge of the barrel is just marking the face as it closes. The barrel has a rather cheap-looking shim around it – not on the parts diagram that I can see – where it is clamped into the overlever, presumably to position the breech face correctly against the valve housing.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...Chiappa/03.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...Chiappa/02.jpg

Front guide cap on the air cylinder is plastic, and looks rather cheap – as I imagine it would’ve on the FAS. I only mention this point as I’ve seen one or two Youtube reviews enthusing about how the gun is all metal, with no plastic on it anywhere.

The sight picture, to my eyes, is acceptable although the ability to fine tune it would probably be useful – the post is getting close to filling the rearsight notch (measured at about 4.0mm post, 3.3mm notch width). Although the steel foresight post is separate, its base dovetailed into the overlever, there’s no mention of removing or replacing it in the manual – it is simply described as ‘fixed’.

Regarding the rearsight, I have obviously adjusted it a little and it hasn’t broken or bent yet – but I have also been very careful to avoid touching it when opening or closing the gun. I’m in no hurry to take it apart, but one thing that does strike me is the strength of the two springs (one either side of the elevation adjustment?) pushing the rearsight up: much stronger than the Weihrauch pistols, or the Baikal Izh-46. I pressed the rearsight down slightly (which is still entirely possible) when making elevation adjustments, which seemed might help to take some of the tension off the screw.

A few final notes on what you get with the gun, which comes in a large plastic case (proper hinges, two sliding catches and lined top and bottom with eggshell foam – not fitted to the gun). There are no actual accessories as such, foresight elements I mentioned above or balance weights (the FAS had these?), all that is supplied is an allen key for trigger adjustments and a spare breech seal. The manual I got is just a poor quality black and white copy, on cheap paper – the exploded diagram is hardly visible (fortunately a pdf is available on the Chippa website).

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...Chiappa/04.jpg

Iain

(But I have enjoyed shooting it so far.)

[Hombre]

Hi Ian

Very many thanks for taking the time to give us an appraisal of your FAS 6004.
I'm sure many others will also have benefitted from your input.

Your details seem to tally pretty much with my own suspicions and conclusion and whilst the new gun is no doubt enjoyable for those unfamiliar with the original I am personally disinclined to feel that it would adequately satisfy anybody who has come to appreciate the workmanship, look and feel of the original especially given the fact that although quite a lot cheaper the new one is still not cheap.

For the time being at least I will keep my powder dry and my money in my pocket.

Above all else I'm very pleased that you are enjoying it and thank you once again for such a detailed description.

ATB
Hombre

[RobinC]

I have had a Mk1 and still have a Mk2, mine is blinged, as the frames do polish up very nicely! (its on www.bobsairguns.com )

But I have only seen the new version in pictures. The design looks the same although the build techniques are different presumably to save cost. The castings on the originals were more machined than rough cast, that breech block is typical, on mine its a precision machined item, on yours its cast, and the frame is the same.
I'm only guessing but I would suspect the differences would be felt on the trigger, the originals can with care be got to be quite sweet, if the bits you can see are rough then so may be the bits you can't.
With what I've seen of the new one, I'd advise to look for a good condition MK2, it will likely be better quality and cheaper.
Good shooting,
Robin

[Aimstraight]

I have tried a FAS 604 MK 1, but had to pass on it as it leaked. It also had some other problems that I was not prepared to accept/fix.

I now have a FAS 6004, ambidextrous grip and am very happy with it. Very nice action/trigger and as mentioned above easy to cock. Not the most powerful gun (there is another thread on here with details if pellet tests), but think the power is similar to the 604 that I tried (when it occasionally sealed).

The one I have is not finished quite the same as the one by Ian K D. The breech block is mostly black (not unfinished) and there is no shim on the barrel. The lower tip of the barrel has a slight chamfer to clear the breech block. The spring loaded steel clip that holds the overlever closed has caught on the alloy block, but now runs free.

As mentioned, the overlever does not snap closed, or pop open, so needs a little persuasion to open and close...that's fine and IIRC similar to the 604.

The main external difference is the overlever finish, which is cast and painted on the 6004, whereas it was machined/Blued on the 604. The lower frame is similar.

The plastic encap on the main cylinder is a disappointment, as the two spigot holes might get marked/worn during repairs.

If you can find a nice example at a good price, the 6004 is not to be dismissed.

If you can find a 604 that works well even better.

[zooma]

If you can find a good FAS 604 (either a mk 1 or a mk 2) it is probably not too much of a worry if it is leaking as seals are easy and inexpensive to find and it is not beyond the skills of most shooters to change them at home or even in the club range !

If repairing an FAS 604 yourself is not something you would want to do yourself there are lots of RFD's that can do this simple job for you including our own BBS guru DM88.

My first FAS 604 was a very well used old mk 1 with an adjustable anatomical grip that had had a hard life and it did not seal as well as it should by the time I became its latest owner so I found the exploded diagram and took it apart - and although that is always the easy bit - I was pleasantly surprised to find that it went back together again just as easily after I had changed the seals.

Many years later this pistol is still performing well and I would be surprised if it did not continue to do so in the foreseeable future.

The FAS 604 air pistol does not look like it was build down to a price - whereas the current 6004 looks to me it is a like a low budget production item (in comparison) even though they shoot well enough.

FAS 604 pistols are highly thought of and always sell quickly whenever one becomes available so they also make a good long term investment that you are unlikely to loose much (if any) cash on if you ever decide to part with it and you would never have any problems selling it.

My opinion from everything I have seen and heard is that the 6004 would not be such a solid long term investment either from a monetary or durability point of view - and that is a shame as I was one of the first to be contacted by the new FAS company in Italy when they started production of them and I thought it looked like a great replacement for a very well loved match pistol.

Our own IJ had to have one as soon as they became available () and brought it to our club where we were able to give it a "good coat of looking at" but it failed almost immediately ( well documented on a BBS thread) and was returned with the option of an exchange. Another new 6004 was not taken as an option!

I very much doubt if the FAS 6004 will ever be held in such high esteem as the FAS 604 or if they will still be mechanically sound after 30 - 40 years use but I would not be at all surprised if the old FAS 604 pistols were still going strong after double that length of time !

[Aimstraight]

The FAS 604 air pistol does not look like it was build down to a price - whereas the current 6004 looks to me it is a like a low budget production item (in comparison) even though they shoot well enough.

Agreed. I understand that a new 604 would have cost (in todays terms) a lot more than the cost of a new 6004 (which is not a small sum). Maybe they thought they would not recoup costs on sales, if production costs are as high as the original 604.

[zooma]

Agreed. I understand that a new 604 would have cost (in todays terms) a lot more than the cost of a new 6004 (which is not a small sum). Maybe they thought they would not recoup costs on sales, if production costs are as high as the original 604.

I think you are absolutely correct to draw the comparison between the "actual" price of both the original FAS 604 and the current FAS 6004 as they are very different and it puts the whole discussion regarding the comparison of the two into a much sharper perspective.

The FAS 6004 is a much less expensive pistol to buy from new than the FAS 604 was and so it would be unreasonable to compare the two without considering the cost element.

When considered in this way the FAS 6004 is a nice looking pistol that does share many of the original 604 features in the same way that the GAMO Compact does... but for a little extra cost the new FAS manufacturers could have looked a little more carefully in certain areas such as those already mentioned in this thread and at the material choice and thread dimensions around the weak rear sight area.

Maybe FAS will produce a mk 2 version of the 6004 in the future where they address the "snags" that prevent this being an excellent and good value for money SSP match pistol - and if they do this then my own interest in owning one would be revived and I would rather pay the extra for an improved 6004 than buy a new GAMO Compact for less cash.

The 6004 does have great potential and I hope the manufacturers address the areas of concern in the near future as it would not take much to improve it considerably.

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

Are these guns still selling well.

You cannot expect the quality of the originals for the price Chiappas is charging. They're only about $400 in the US.

But then I remember a time when the original 604 came in for its fair share of criticism for leaks and perished seals. I think some retailers stopped selling it because of these problems.

Maybe for someone who just likes to shoot at home the 6004 would be a fnice alternative to the huge top heavy HW75.

What bothers me is the low velocity the gun appears to produce. I read somehwere that a gun producing less than 390 fps will not make clean holes in a Bisley paper target.

If any owners would care to comment on this I'd appreciate it. Does it seem sturdy enough to last a few years?

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

For some reason my previous post hasn't been published so I thought I'd see if posting again would get it up on the forum.

[I. J.]

Our own IJ had to have one as soon as they became available () and brought it to our club where we were able to give it a "good coat of looking at" but it failed almost immediately ( well documented on a BBS thread) and was returned with the option of an exchange. Another new 6004 was not taken as an option!

Tis true. I waited many a weeks for the new FAS6004 to arrive and picked one up as soon as possible from my local, friendly retailer. In the very short time I had it (2 days ) it seemed to shoot fine if somewhat low. Thats when the trouble started. When I came to adjust the rear sight the adjusting screw (2mm steel) stripped the ally thread. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Airs...l?sort=6&o=133 Perhaps mine was just a rouge example or I dont know my own strength.
I exchanged it for a s/h FWB100 - now that is a lovely piece of equipment.

HTH
Ian