Rechargeable 12g Co2 Cartridge

[GRAZY]

I got one of these from RAP4 and was wondering if its ok to charge it through a soda-stream bottle that I have from my bulk fill Drulov. I think its possible to adapt the filling but have no idea what pressure the co2 is in these soda bottles, also how practical it is to have them refilled as the one i have is an old style as thats what fits the fill cap i have. I was told up to 850 psi is normal for the 12g cartridge. The alternative is to buy a small paint ball tank and use that, I'm just trying to save cost but any ideas welcome.

[Benelli B76]

The pressure is the same in both vessels depending on the ambient temperature. As you say around 850 lb sq in, rising to 1000 lb sq in in hot weather. I normally put the receiving cylinder for my FWB in the freezer before transfer of CO2 as it will fill easier. You may not be able to do that with your 12 grm as it may be the type that needs to be filled in situ in the pistol.

Baz

[airgunnut]

I got one of these from RAP4 and was wondering if its ok to charge it through a soda-stream bottle that I have from my bulk fill Drulov. I think its possible to adapt the filling but have no idea what pressure the co2 is in these soda bottles, also how practical it is to have them refilled as the one i have is an old style as thats what fits the fill cap i have. I was told up to 850 psi is normal for the 12g cartridge. The alternative is to buy a small paint ball tank and use that, I'm just trying to save cost but any ideas welcome.

All the rechargeable 12g co2 carts I have seen are for compressed air not co2,
With co2 it's not measured by psi but by weight as co2 is stored as a liquid not gas (bit like a lighter) so the pressure is the same regardless of the size of cylinder (ignoring temp)
As the rechargeable cylinders are ment for air, the seals and O rings are not ment for co2 so will freeze and leak when filling (co2 seals are of a different rubber and have diffrent greases)
Hope this helps
http://www.magic9designltd.com/co2-bulk-fill
Edit this is what I'm thinking about when you say rechargeable 12g co2 cylinders
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/details.a...s&Product=5523
Brocock had something similar but the intricate valve in the cart was (i think) it's downfall (apart from the price)

[Benelli B76]

We know that CO2 is measured by weight that is why the capsules are called 12 grm The guy was worried about pressure which is a safety aspect where weight is not. My TAU cylinder holds about 120 grm and the FWB cylinders 40 grm. That is how I know they have filled after transfer. Lawrie makes his own 12 grm CO2 rechargeable cylinders. I think the air ones are a waste of time due to number of shots available.

Baz

[GRAZY]

Thanks for the help on this folks, I have got some Proton x2 which are just air and they are sold as being able to hold 200 bar which i think is higher than the Brocock. I thought i would try the Rap4 ones as I have had there stuff before and love their 43cal pistols. I spoke to them and they said co2 was best but air is ok as long as the pressure was around 850psi. My plan was to use these for co2 and the proton for air. I will make up an adaptor for my drulov bulk fill connector and let you know how it goes.

[airgunnut]

This should help
http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tech...dynamics.shtml
The pressure is only affected by temp

[spaspecker]

I have got some Proton x2 which are just air and they are sold as being able to hold 200 bar which i think is higher than the Brocock

the proton cartridges are unregulated. If you try to push 200 bar through your co2 pistol you will encounter, at best, hammer lock and at worst catastrophic internal failure of your guns components. Unregulated compressed air is VERY dangerous

I know they are unregulated as there has been a massive discussion about them on a canadian airgun website. They have also been tested by an american airgun blogger who has something to do with pyramyd air (if memory serves)

I have also personally emailed Luke Camilleri, MD of LJ Camell in merseyside, who has been making and trying to sell these cartridges since the 90's. I emailed my concerns, and asked him directly if these cartridges are regulated. As of even date I have received no reply

Nigel Allen of airgun shooter was loaned one of these cylinders to test by SMK, who are marketing them in the UK. Mr Allen asked SMK about whether or not these cartridges are regulated, expressing the same fears as to the potential dangers of unregulated air in CO2 pistols. He never receieved a reply but was asked by SMK to return the cartridge, claiming they no longer wanted him to test it.

I have no personal axe to grind with Mr Camilleri, or SMK for that matter, it would just be nice to get an answer once and for all

the brocock versions were regulated, but only yielded about maybe 10 shots per cartridge when charged - fine for testing for leaks but fairly useless for a plinking session as they were around 30quid each when new. Not very cost effective

CO2 at room temperature is self-regulating around 850 PSI. The cartridges available from (C)rap4UK (we have previous issues! they are a terrible retailer) are supposed to be filled with liquid CO2 from either a bulk fill station or by using the adapter they sell seperately. When transferring liquid CO2 your recipient container MUST be chilled or you will transfer only gas. I have a bulk fill station that I refill my custom XS78's from, plus a few RAM rifles that I have converted to shoot 4.5mm BB's. If using an old pub cylinder, or a soda stream canister, you must invert them so they transfer only liquid CO2. My bulk fill station utilises a dip-tube cylinder, which means it can stay the right way up as it fills from the bottom of the cylinder thereby only transferring liquid CO2. Liquid CO2 is also transferred and checked by weight, NOT volume. I have a paintball buddy bottle that I fill from my station then take to the range with me, it is a 20 oz bottle so I fill it with 17 oz of liquid CO2 - the 3 oz left is for expansion as I chill the bottle in the freezer for an hour before transfer, so when it comes back to room temp the CO2 has somewhere to go. The bottle has a safety device called a burst disk, which will do just that if overfilled - I know this because when I first started bulk filling I overfilled my buddy bottle to 20 oz exactly, so when it returned to room temperature the CO2 expanded slightly - the burst disk went and the bottle shot out from under my bed (where I had it stored) and chased me round the bedroom. Amusing now, but not then

[GRAZY]

The proton cartridges are regulated. There is a main filling chamber which is 200 bar then a small air space before the top that has a spring type regulator. I spoke to Mr Camilleri and he loosely confirmed this, i also have managed to find copies of plans for prototypes and finished model on the internet which show this. Mr Camilleri is a gent and I have the utmost faith in his work of which I'm sure a lot went into making these.
With the co2 however i am now not so sure. So should I weigh them before and after filling and is there a way to confirm that they are 12g before i start? Having a mini co2 cartridge primed to explode due to lack of expansion space sounds bad. Maybe just sticking to room temp may help as its less likely to over fill? I'm wishing i had instructions but nothing came with them.

[airgunnut]

I've found that if something doesn't come with instructions it means that the manufacters have no intention of giving any customer service or warranty, if any thing goes wrong they can say "you did not follow the instructions that's why the product failed and because you did not follow the instructions you have voided the warranty"

[oling]

I looked to go down the rechargeable 12g co2 route before but found extensive trawling through the internet to show that the product is fruitless. Not only does the product not have a burst disc (unlike the buddy bottles) but it is so easy to overfill as such as small quantity of co2 is dispensed into the cylinder, it is easy to overfill. Finally, given the size of the valve in the little 12g, there is little room for actual co2. Your best bet in my opinion is just to buy disposable co2s in bulk from JSR at just 25p a pop, they are hardly expensive.