BSA Scorpion or HW 45 ?

[Benelli B76]

For .22 air pistol high per performance choice what are the pros and cons from owners of these ?

Baz

[Geezer]

Let me have a go.

HW45: better overall build quality, easy to work on, plentiful new spares, 1911 grip frame fits the hand well and takes aftermarket grips, accurate, decent sights and trigger. If you like that kind of thing, easy to disfigure with optics, silencers, and even a wooden shoulder stock. Some have quirky dual power setting (can't myself see the point of that).

Scorpion: OK build quality, bit tricky to take apart and put back together, only old spares though not hard to find, very accurate, weird 70s grip, decent trigger, decent sights until a bit breaks, usually a bit more powerful than the 45 - 5-5.5ft/lbs as against 4.5-5 for the HW (at least the recent 45s I have seen tested). Bit cheaper to buy than a used 45. Early Scorps have no scope grooves, if that matters to you.

Sounds like the 45 is the better all-round bet. Except I have a Scorpion and am very fond of it, and have no great desire to get a 45.

The Scorp is British, iconic, and makes me smile. It shoots really accurately on the rare occasion I get everything right. Whereas the 45 is trying a bit too hard to be a replica cartridge pistol, and not succeeding.

Have you ruled out of consideration the Diana LP5M and LP8?

[Hsing-ee]

They are both boinging springers. Get one of those Snow Peak CP1 pistols that run off CO2, much easier to shoot and can be powerful if you want.

The Scorpion is a cut down rifle, while the HW is a Webley as it should have been, but with a decent trigger. Dealing with the back and forth spring-surge-bounce-crash of a springer is fine in a rifle, but pistols are so difficult to shoot it is not worth getting a recoiling one. Unless you just like shooting tin cans.

Scorpion can be tuned to over 8 fpe, making it a Section 5 firearm like an UZI SUBMACHINEGUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go straight to jail for 5 years. That's the sting in the tail.

[Benelli B76]

Thanks for all the details you listed. The reason I am asking, my mate has just given me a boxed minter Scorpion to check over. It has all the original bits in the box including metal target and oil bottle etc. No scratches on the plastic grip frame. I just gave him back his HW 45 which I was very impressed with, lovely trigger and accurate. Both are for sale and I fancy buying one of them due to the power output they both give. Used to have a bad opinion of the HW 45 as I never owned one and they seemed a bit big and bulky, but now see they are a good pistol. To Hsing-ee I have loads of other pistols including PCP'S and Bulk fill CO2'S, and SSP. Don't know what the UZI has to do with this, not looking for one of these especially as I dont like them. We had the micro UZI in South Africa which you could carry for self defence in semi auto setup.

Baz

[Geezer]

pistols are so difficult to shoot it is not worth getting a recoiling one.

Going to have disagree on this, Alistair.

Pistols are so difficult to shoot it is definitely worth getting a recoiling one.

Because it is so satisfying when you get everything right and it groups.

Though only when I do my bit.

Which isn't as often as I would like.

[pjbingham]

Personally I would go for the Scorpion,I've owned both (still have the Scorpion) I had a HW45 the duel power version but I just never got on with it for some reason. On paper it's great but it's just abit soulless IMO and it's one of only a few pistols I've parted with. I've had 2 Scorpions(1 really was a wreck) and although it's not my first "go to" pistol it's a fun can mangler in .22 and I wouldn't part with it.

[Geezer]

PS, Baz - you are never going to lose your money on a boxed minty Scorp. There aren't many about, and there's a collectors' market.

Whereas a used HW45 is just a used HW45.

Webley Hurricane isn't bad...

Getting my coat.

[Benelli B76]

PS, Baz - you are never going to lose your money on a boxed minty Scorp. There aren't many about, and there's a collectors' market.

Whereas a used HW45 is just a used HW45.

Webley Hurricane isn't bad...

Getting my coat.

Funny I was just thinking the same thing. Scorpion more collectable. My mate will tell you I love collectables that are also good shooters, thats why I like Schimels and the old Benjamins as well. Will put pics of Scorp on tomorrow.

Baz

[Geezer]

Funny I was just thinking the same thing. Scorpion more collectable. My mate will tell you I love collectables that are also good shooters, thats why I like Schimels and the old Benjamins as well. Will put pics of Scorp on tomorrow.

Baz

Look forward to it.

I am horribly fond of the Scorpion, in a prodigal son sort of way.

I spent 30 or more years writing them off as a nutty-looking double-amputated rifle for power-crazed loons that couldn't hit anything beyond a very big tin can at point-blank range. Then I finally bought one, and discovered the Scorp is actually a nutty-looking double-amputated rifle that on a good day can shoot two-thirds of an inch groups at 10M.

[Bumpsfelt]

... one of each but in 177. Both challenging. BSA is more accurate in my hands but I love the HW trigger. They are idiosyncratic but so rewarding when you get it right. Much more fun than my non- recoilers.

[Benelli B76]

I have repaired a few of these but this is the nicest one that I have come across.

Baz

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/...psonkrmfbl.jpg

[JMH123]

I've got both. HW feels more modern and serious. Scorpion is a big nostalgia rush and absolutely brilliant with a shoulder stock and red dot. Great kids trainer. Great rat buster. Great fun.

Get both S/H and sell the one you don't want (bet you keep both).

[ETCHY]

Thread resurrection time

I really like the look of both of these pistols. I looked at & handled both at an arms & militaria fair in November, a dealer there (chap called Tim Dyson dunno if you've heard of him, he has a site on line ?) had both on his stand.

I don't know why but I didn't buy either & have regretted it since

The Hw45 appeals because it's powerful gets great reviews but looks weirdly out of proportion like a bit of plank attached to some 1911 grips , the Scorpion I like 'cos it's British & just looks mental, like a ray gun from Dan Dare

I've always erred towards the Scorpion but the one thing that bothers me about the Scorpion is that I've heard it's really difficult to cock & can suffer from problems.

Is this the case that the Scorpion is it a pig to cock & will it be a pain in the **** if I get one ? Is the HW45 just better overall?

More opinions & info' etc would be good on either.

Cheers

Dave

[Rickenbacker]

Both are shit.

HTH

[clarky]

unquestionably a Scorpion.
The 45 might seem a better idea on paper but the forward moving recoil of the Scorpion is much easier to control which is the opposite of what one might think....

They compacted a lot in to the 45 for better compactness but the compression ratios/transfer set up is a shocker. Real difficult to tune even if you can get into it easier.
On the otherhand, the Scorpion has the most ideal of harmonics and needs down tuning to keep it legal.
Benched it trounces a 45 for fun..
Hand held we have size and trigger differences to get use to more with a Scorpion but once mastered its not even close...
I shoot with a whole raft load of club shooters that never choose 45s for springer selection.
Gamo Centers, Scorpions walther 53s so much more potential once mastered.
I can shoot a group inside the group i make with a 45 with a LP53 on the same target to save cards....ive also done similar with an Original 5
It just aint an accurate pistol.
The Scorpion isnt hard to cock unless your toy armed.