Double Spring Clip Webley Mk1 Air Pistol.

[Abasmajor]

Hello,

Noticed this boxed, Double Spring Clip Webley Mk1 coming up at Holts December sale. As is often the case estimate is very low with something around £1000 being nearer the mark in my opinion.

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com...6958&saletype=

Regards

Brian

[Sam99]

Personally , I think it will fetch a lot more.
Poss £2K.


Sam

[Troubledshooter]

I agree with Sam, but it will be interesting to see what it does finally realise.

[Abasmajor]

Personally , I think it will fetch a lot more.
Poss £2K.


Sam

Hi Sam,

Yeah thinking about it a bit more, £1,500 - £2000 would seem about right, especially bearing in mind the eceptionally high price paid for the Tell 3 at the last sale.

Regards

Brian

[micky2]

it will be intresting to see how well it does, l missted out on one about 8-10 years at auction, complete with a spare barrel, in a lot better condition than Holts one and the box was in great conditon as well. that went for £550 hammer price if memory serves me well. l hadn't got enough money to carry on bidding.

[Josie & John]

Not sure if the apparent condition justifies £1k+, irrespective of rarity. Personally I'd consider this a good buy at around £600 hammer.

Still, way better than a refinished example and I'm sure there will be potential bidders out there who disagree with me though.

John

[erichtfisherman]

Quite a high serial number at 1530 I thought only approximately 700 were double clip ? It looks original though.

[Josie & John]

Quite a high serial number at 1530 I thought only approximately 700 were double clip ? It looks original though.

Yes and no Eric. I have seen double spring clips in this serial number range before, so it is a good example of not relying solely on serial numbers to date a certain pistol. The change from spring clips to thumbcatch came in at around SN 700 but that is not to say you will not find examples with slightly higher numbers.

Kind regards,

John.

[Garvin]

An expert in these pistols has just pointed out to me that any potential buyers would be wise to exercise caution!

He points out that the spring clips are much too long and have no 'dimple', and that the breech block is damaged with the frontal projections broken.

As for the high serial no., it has been overstamped. He speculates that maybe it went back to Webley for work, hence the confusingly high number overstamped. He reports no.707 is known to have the familiar sliding top latch.

This pistol also has a rear plug retained by a screw, which is wrong for the purported period.

Lastly, he points out that the interior of the box tray is not shown so there is no way of knowing if the original, large double pellet compartment is still intact or present.

[Abasmajor]

An expert in these pistols has just pointed out to me that any potential buyers would be wise to exercise caution!

He points out that the spring clips are much too long and have no 'dimple', and that the breech block is damaged with the frontal projections broken.

As for the high serial no., it has been overstamped. He speculates that maybe it went back to Webley for work, hence the confusingly high number overstamped. He reports no.707 is known to have the familiar sliding top latch.

This pistol also has a rear plug retained by a screw, which is wrong for the purported period.

Lastly, he points out that the interior of the box tray is not shown so there is no way of knowing if the original, large double pellet compartment is still intact or present.

Hi Danny,

Thanks for sharing the reservations regarding the 'Spring Clip' which once again highlights the importance of this site and the invaluable input available from experts within and sometimes outside the forum.

Caveat emptor as they say.

Regards

Brian

[JimmieDee]

Hi Danny,

Thanks for sharing the reservations regarding the 'Spring Clip' which once again highlights the importance of this site and the invaluable input available from experts within and sometimes outside the forum.

Caveat emptor as they say.

Regards

Brian

Hey Danny,

My observations are:

The spring clips may have been replaced.

The broken frontal projections - this is not uncommon. This may have been done at the factory either by accident or deliberately or they may have been broken off with use. It is possible that at the factory, one projection could have been broken and that they removed the other deliberately in order to sell the pistol. There is another, later variant of the double spring clip that was made without the projections above the spring clips.

The rear plug retaining screw is also not unheard of.

The high serial number is the real oddity in my opinion. But an intriguing one nonetheless.

I have two double spring clips in my collection.

#281 Thicker reinforced (?) barrel. Projections broken off or removed. Visible signs that they existed. No retaining screw.
#656 Thin barrel. No projections. Not broken off. The metal work is square. Retaining screw present.

It is very plausible that design improvements were added to the double spring clip before the 2nd series with the sliding barrel catch was introduced.

As ever, I will fully document these variations in an article on my blog page when I get round to it.

All the best,
Jimmie Dee

[Gareth W-B]

Thanks for sharing the reservations regarding the 'Spring Clip' which once again highlights the importance of this site and the invaluable input available from experts within and sometimes outside the forum.

Indeed and agreed. Many thanks.

[Troubledshooter]

Lastly, he points out that the interior of the box tray is not shown so there is no way of knowing if the original, large double pellet compartment is still intact or present.

The boxes with the larger inner compartment were also slightly smaller in overall dimensions than the later Mk.1 WG boxes with the smaller inner compartment.

[Davidm61]

I've been looking at this at gun on Holts as well, and the styling of the breech block where the barrel 'clicks' in, and the inclusion of the screw to retain/locate the breech/rear air cylinder plug is shown in a photo of a double spring clip MK1 on page 16 of Gordon Bruces 'Webley Air Pistols' book. Sadly it doesn't show the serial number of that gun, and yes, the spring clips are different, having the 'dimples' that would push against the barrel. But the photo at least shows a MK1 double spring clip with a similar set up to the one on Holts site.

Where it has been said in earlier posts that breech is broken, could anyone please point out where, as from the photos on Holts site I can't see any damage to the gun.

Many thanks.

[Garvin]

Where it has been said in earlier posts that breech is broken, could anyone please point out where, as from the photos on Holts site I can't see any damage to the gun.

Many thanks.

The forward projections on the breech block appear to have snapped or been removed. This pistol shows a damaged breech from above.