Why don't Air Arms make break barrels?

[Clanchief]

You might be right but I suspect most of us are quite happy with HW springers to the extent that they don't want an underlever. AA are interested in PROFIT not vanity and their experience with break barrel isn't good.
By the way you do realise that the barrels on Air arms rifles are German? Already one important component -possibly THE most important-of a 'British' rifle is a 'German' barrel.

So it would resemble Triggers broom, a German Barrel, Turkish Walnut stock, and a British action with a Swedish spring maybe, Jap optics calling it made in Britain might be a tough one.

Would there be anything left for us to do to tinker and make it individual, think the closest that has come out over here is the Longbow.

Remember a horse designed by a committee is a Camel, what would you call a break barrel springer designed by this threads posters ?

[TonyL]

Okay, the high-end AA break barrel may not happen.

Maybe there's a whiff of a chance of an AA labelled one, though, although I have no clue as to the age of this rifle.

At the last Boinger Bash, one of the chaps brought along with him an ex-prototype / test mule "Air Arms" break barrel. I had few shots with it;quite nice it was, too.

However, I said to the chap, "Here you go, I'll show you what that is". Basically it was a CZ Slavia break barrel with a CD trigger and (I seem to remember) a different stock. I produced my CZ634 out of the gunslip....and it was plain for all to see....same cylinder including dovetails and arrestor grooves and same breech block / barrel arrangement (apart from, unlike the 634, it didn't have the manual breech latch).

Also, when I got my 634, the two details of the internals that jumped out on this 25mm bore gun were the AA style piston seal and TX stylee synthetic band at rear of piston.

And, taking into account the collaboration re the S200, maybe this could be a reality? But I don't know how old this prototype is. If not recent, it may have been shelved years ago. Could be a much more cost effective way of getting a 25mm break barrel to market without an absolute fortune in development costs, with probably CZ footing most of the bill, or a split venture with shared costs?

[oneseven]

You are speaking purely personally. You may well be prepared to buy one but that doesn't make it a viable business proposition. The market is crowded AND their history with the PE will make them extra cautious.
AA have limited production space and choose to use that in making higher added value PCPs'.
Don't get me wrong-if they made a break barrel I'd certainly look to buy one too but I won't be holding my breath.

Sure, but you'd agree that if they start to hear more demand for a particular gun they will be more likely to produce one. I still think it's a huge gap in their product range, a break barrel should be a staple for them. If people start emailing they might wake up to it.

[oneseven]

So it would resemble Triggers broom, a German Barrel, Turkish Walnut stock, and a British action with a Swedish spring maybe, Jap optics calling it made in Britain might be a tough one.

Would there be anything left for us to do to tinker and make it individual, think the closest that has come out over here is the Longbow.

Remember a horse designed by a committee is a Camel, what would you call a break barrel springer designed by this threads posters ?

Just like a Daystate then!

[John doe]

You might be right but I suspect most of us are quite happy with HW springers to the extent that they don't want an underlever. AA are interested in PROFIT not vanity and their experience with break barrel isn't good.
By the way you do realise that the barrels on Air arms rifles are German? Already one important component -possibly THE most important-of a 'British' rifle is a 'German' barrel.

Interesting, what was the problem with there break barrel rifle when it did come to market? I bet they are quite thin on the ground? Any idea when they went out of production?

JD

[lensman57]

Flooded market for break barrelled springers.
Any premium rifle would have to show premium accuracy and shooting ability which wouldn't be easy to achieve in a break barrel.
Bent barrels from use are a common issue with break barrelled rifles; which in plus 12 ft/lbs guns is even more of an issue especially if "left to fly".
Break barrel rifles tend to be more sporty and lighter weight. Far less forgiving and difficult to shoot well than a heavy weight underlever. Gasram a slightly more forgiving power plant to use, but then someone else does those well already.

Add it all up a premium break barrel springer would be a heap of trouble.

AA already make two fantastic spring guns which do shoot straight and look fantastic. A type worth the premium as they ooze quality and will last so a pleasure to own.
Better to invest in the new technology which is PCP.

My HW98, as accurate as any PCP ( not with me on the trigger though ). I love it. I am going to take it to AIR tomorrow and have pop at the 70 yards range.

A.G

[Clanchief]

It's possible they could do a run of 100 modded by them from a first company spec. A bit like when SFS bought 50 Longbows from Venom to turn into a SFS Phantom, even back then the run finished at thirty purchased as interest faded, thankfully I have one of the left twenty.

Perhaps AA or a custom tuning house could purchase 100 95's from Hans and re spec them in house and re stock them to a one off run of a tidy spec' d break barrel.

The custom house or AA would still be shelling out 40k for a gamble of what kind of mark up and turn around on your outlay, marketing and investment ?

Perhaps a pipe dream but what about a pay up front bbs boinger special, if you want one sign up and pay up to a custom house 100% of the estimated final cost, they will then source the suggested spec items and assemble to the design spec, only once the final true cost has been established and final payments made would the new one off rifles be able to be owned by the new individual of the collective.

There may be a minimal run that the first supplier Hans could do so maybe 30 to make it worthwhile for the U.K. gunmaker to assemble and turn out, kinda like MG of days gone by.

This may be the only way to see a limited run of a Break Barrel anytime soon.

[Telephonepete]

i have bought 2 custom stocks for the 99. on the subject of quality once fettled and i have heard all the arguments about "should not need to". i think the 97/77 is probably a better gun. certainly the cocking stroke is better. mind you i love my tx,s carbine and full length. i had the pro sport and got rid very quickly. i really dont know where all this anti weihrauch stuff comes from. regards pete

[Geezer]

I fear it is a pipe dream, however appealing.

Back when springers ruled in the 80s, there were at least a dozen places offering high end custom jobs, varying from just bunging a stock action in a CS stock and making vague claims that they had "tuned" it, to the full-on Venom and Airmasters stuff.

Now, V-Mach is basically Steve Pope. And there's SFS, Wonky, and that's about it. Because the same sort of person who in 1985 wanted a Mastersport 77 now wants a Daystate or a Steyr or an FWB FT rifle.

Worse, a lot of the real tuned springer lovers, many of whom are on here, have worked out that, if you are mechanically handy, you can equal or exceed the custom shop work in your own shed for less money.

We might all say on a thread that we'd buy a new super break barrel, but in practice how many of us in the real world would stump up 500 actual quids for something that is no better than a tuned HW (which we probably own more than one of already)?

[derekj]

Besides everything else Diana currently produce elegant, well engineered break barrel models either spring piston or gas strut coupled with the excellent T06 trigger.

[Geezer]

Besides everything else Diana currently produce elegant, well engineered break barrel models either spring piston or gas strut coupled with the excellent T06 trigger.

Paging barryg.

[look no hands]

So it would resemble Triggers broom, a German Barrel, Turkish Walnut stock, and a British action with a Swedish spring maybe, Jap optics calling it made in Britain might be a tough one.

The stocks are made in Italy if I remember correctly and the "Turkish" bit is the wood itself, like "English Walnut" and "American walnut", in the beginning Air Arms used Custom stocks in Sheffield to supply their stocks (including other makers like Theoben and Daystate), I'm sure Air Arms could obtain their barrels from BSA, if they wanted to keep their "made in Britain" label but are BSA barrels as accurate as German barrels, at the end of the day if it's assembled over here and giving someone a job then that's what counts in my eyes, it's companies like Webley or should we say AGS who buy a British company and then rip it apart and have everything made abroad, that's why I say we should all be buying British but then like I've already said how can AA compete against HW's product range or even Diana or Gamo but if they can make one decent break barrel rifle and convert it simply by changing the latch rod for different powers levels then it may well work, considering they only really have the TX and PS in the range as well.

Pete

[Geezer]

The stocks are made in Italy if I remember correctly and the "Turkish" bit is the wood itself, like "English Walnut" and "American walnut", in the beginning Air Arms used Custom stocks in Sheffield to supply their stocks (including other makers like Theoben and Daystate), I'm sure Air Arms could obtain their barrels from BSA, if they wanted to keep their "made in Britain" label but are BSA barrels as accurate as German barrels, at the end of the day if it's assembled over here and giving someone a job then that's what counts in my eyes, it's companies like Webley or should we say AGS who buy a British company and then rip it apart and have everything made abroad, that's why I say we should all be buying British but then like I've already said how can AA compete against HW's product range or even Diana or Gamo but if they can make one decent break barrel rifle and convert it simply by changing the latch rod for different powers levels then it may well work, considering they only really have the TX and PS in the range as well.

Pete

From the interweb, below. It's on the ball about the UK Sale of Goods Act.

A lot of highly priced Italian clothing, for example, is actually made in the developing world, but the buttons are sewn on in Italy. At least that's what I have heard.


"_ Where is the country of origin?
Goods are deemed to have been manufactured or produced in the country in which they last underwent a treatment or process resulting in a substantial change.
The term "substantial change'1 is not defined in the Act, although an Order made under it explicitly states that the process of silver-plating stainless-steel cutlery does not constitute a "substantial change". Generally, therefore, the meaning of this phrase is left to the trader to determine, but it would ultimately be for a court to decide, taking account of an ordinary person's perception of the circumstances surrounding the individual case, whether the particular country or place specified is indeed where the last substantial change took place. For example, placing a finished product into a container or outer box or carrying out a simple finishing process on a product would probably not be considered to be substantially changing the nature of the product. On the other hand. creating a garment from cloth, albeit imported. would be likely to be considered to result in such a change. If you are in doubt about where your goods originate, you should consult your local Trading Standards Office, or seek legal advice.

It should be emphasised that it is not just country of origin statements which may mislead. Statements about a town, county or region, etc are also covered by the Act, as are any other statements about origin."

[oneseven]

So it would resemble Triggers broom, a German Barrel, Turkish Walnut stock, and a British action with a Swedish spring maybe, Jap optics calling it made in Britain might be a tough one.

Would there be anything left for us to do to tinker and make it individual, think the closest that has come out over here is the Longbow.

Remember a horse designed by a committee is a Camel, what would you call a break barrel springer designed by this threads posters ?

Just like a Daystate then!

[Clanchief]

Perhaps then Hans could do us a U.K. run of 95's in a nice factory walnut stock, it would be a HW 95E Karbine "TT",,,,,,,,,(which with the special piston kit from you know who is short for Tinbum Trophy)

I'll have two, one in the usual and one in .20.