Walther LP53

[vbull]

In the past I've had the ally bits on these LP53's Cerakoted by Riflecraft which to my mind gives the best finish, similar to but better than the factory job and very hard wearing, it is expensive, so OK if you pick up the gun cheap due to cosmetic condition.

[clarky]

That's lucky, cos my barrel is in the anodising shop tomorrow!

I used a cut down HW30 spring with a tiny top hat and over sleeved guide over the existing unit. It worked well, but I have a few more spring combo's to try when its all back together. I want the smoothest possible 420fps for clean cut holes in paper targets.

I have run a few chrony shots for you with the springs i have with my Delrin/Stainless guides/Tophats

Protek power pod spring and their own nylon guide and their 12.5 gram weight. 438 fps Avg.
(I suppose within 15 fps of the mentioned 455 fps in the AGW article and pellet dependent ....fair enough)

Protek spring but with the crap Nylon guide chucked out (way too short and tight) replaced with my own precision stainless steel slide fitting guide and 18 gram top hat and 2mm increased pre load 487 fps
Most power set up.

P18 Konceptus spring and resized version of above stainless guide and top hat (16.8 Grams)
462 fps
This is a slightly weaker but longer spring than the Proteks spring but very well made and finished for very little cost.

P18 spring but precision slide fit Delrin guide and small location top hat 435 fps
Most accurate set up.

Proteks spring but using delrin guide and top hat as above ...im working on it ...

All shots based on 3 shot string avg with Falcon pellets...

[johnbaz]

It actually is not zamak and monkey metal is brass..i think
The outer shroud of the 53 is pure cast aluminium which was chosen due to its ease of taking anodizing.....zamak will not take anodizing.

Hi Clarky

I've not heard of brass being called Monkey metal, I've always known Zinc alloy (Carburetta bodies etc) as monkey metal as it's rather brittle!

Also heard of certain types of Bronze referred to as Pot metal, No idea why though!!


John

[Benelli B76]

Pot metal was the old name for pewter mostly tin content and they made pots and pans and items from it. The name was transferred on to Zamak (UK MAZAK Morris Ashby licence) as it looked similar but was completely different in make up. Any news on the anodising as I am very interested in the outcome ?

Baz

[clarky]

Hi Clarky

I've not heard of brass being called Monkey metal, I've always known Zinc alloy (Carburetta bodies etc) as monkey metal as it's rather brittle!

Also heard of certain types of Bronze referred to as Pot metal, No idea why though!!


John

Ok buddy ill go with you on that. Ive no strong feelings on it even after having been a materials scientist in a former life before teaching materials.
I always assumed incorrectly it seems that Monkey metal was named after Brass Monkeys lol.
Brass Monkeys term came from the brass fixtures which craddled cannon balls on English vessels....when weather turned cold the craddles could contract gripping the balls.
So called Pot metals are due to them being cast...nothing more and can therefore relate to a whole raft of castable metals....zinc...pewter etc etc.
I can be forgiven for the Monkey metal though....no place in scientific referencing or
periodic tables.....its just a slang term .

[harvey_s]

Pot metal was the old name for pewter mostly tin content and they made pots and pans and items from it. The name was transferred on to Zamak (UK MAZAK Morris Ashby licence) as it looked similar but was completely different in make up. Any news on the anodising as I am very interested in the outcome ?

Baz

Pot metal is the collective name for low-melting point alloys of zinc, tin and lead (melted in a pot)...nowt to do with pots & pans - they would make terrible pots and pans as they would just melt...
Later it came into general use to describe low quality die-cast zinc alloys as well - also called monkey metal for obvious reasons.

Zamak & Mazak are zinc/aluminium alloys some of which are appalling and some are very useful...years ago, they were unrepairable and poorly designed and thus also attracted the 'pot or monkey metal' moniker.
Nowadays they tend to better designed and alloyed with other metals to give better service although there is still some crap out there.

[Benelli B76]

Pot metal is the collective name for low-melting point alloys of zinc, tin and lead (melted in a pot)...nowt to do with pots & pans - they would make terrible pots and pans as they would just melt...
Later it came into general use to describe low quality die-cast zinc alloys as well - also called monkey metal for obvious reasons.

Zamak & Mazak are zinc/aluminium alloys some of which are appalling and some are very useful...years ago, they were unrepairable and poorly designed and thus also attracted the 'pot or monkey metal' moniker.
Nowadays they tend to better designed and alloyed with other metals to give better service although there is still some crap out there.

Nearly all the new CO2 pistols on the market today are made from Zamak 2,3,5, etc. All the Umarex range, and the new revolvers. Now some of the PCP rifles I am repairing have a few cast bits on them. Nothing wrong with it. I know the old mix they used like on my Schimels had a problem on some pistols.I like it because the old vintage pistols such as Smith &Wesson and Crosman have not rusted, like some of the Webleys I work on. Think I was the first to name Zamak on the BBS, was always called "pot metal" or "monkey metal" before on here. Anyway fed up with the arguments on this thread, will not be reading it anymore because nobody answers straight forward questions.

bye, bye Baz

[harvey_s]

Nearly all the new CO2 pistols on the market today are made from Zamak 2,3,5, etc. All the Umarex range, and the new revolvers. Now some of the PCP rifles I am repairing have a few cast bits on them. Nothing wrong with it. I know the old mix they used like on my Schimels had a problem on some pistols.I like it because the old vintage pistols such as Smith &Wesson and Crosman have not rusted, like some of the Webleys I work on. Think I was the first to name Zamak on the BBS, was always called "pot metal" or "monkey metal" before on here. Anyway fed up with the arguments on this thread, will not be reading it anymore because nobody answers straight forward questions.

bye, bye Baz

...throws scarf over left shoulder and flounces off stage left

[clarky]

Nearly all the new CO2 pistols on the market today are made from Zamak 2,3,5, etc. All the Umarex range, and the new revolvers. Now some of the PCP rifles I am repairing have a few cast bits on them. Nothing wrong with it. I know the old mix they used like on my Schimels had a problem on some pistols.I like it because the old vintage pistols such as Smith &Wesson and Crosman have not rusted, like some of the Webleys I work on. Think I was the first to name Zamak on the BBS, was always called "pot metal" or "monkey metal" before on here. Anyway fed up with the arguments on this thread, will not be reading it anymore because nobody answers straight forward questions.

bye, bye Baz

im proper happy for you to call your zamak monkey metal....pot metal or even brass monkeys metals..
It was me who had made the mistake of assuming the slang term of monkey metal as being brass..
You are correct reg the Umarex stuff....its why none of the stuff is anodized unlike the solid alloy breach blocks of PCPs.....and the Walther LP53

[eyebull]

I've a feeling that the prevalence of zamak/mazak in modern replica airpistols is mainly to allay concerns that they could be converted to fire any kind of powder round. I've seen anecdotes on here of converting old webleys to fire .22 rf, and of course there were the TAC pistols...But there is no chance of someone successfully firing a live round from an Umarex - not twice anyway
That it's both cheap but feels reassuringly heavy is probably just a welcome bonus...
I don't mind the bodies of airguns being made from this if they are under no particular mechanical strain, but I do object to fragile alloys being used for things like indexing pawls and Co2 pressure plates. It has its place.

[Geezer]

I've a feeling that the prevalence of zamak/mazak in modern replica airpistols is mainly to allay concerns that they could be converted to fire any kind of powder round. I've seen anecdotes on here of converting old webleys to fire .22 rf, and of course there were the TAC pistols...But there is no chance of someone successfully firing a live round from an Umarex - not twice anyway
That it's both cheap but feels reassuringly heavy is probably just a welcome bonus...
I don't mind the bodies of airguns being made from this if they are under no particular mechanical strain, but I do object to fragile alloys being used for things like indexing pawls and Co2 pressure plates. It has its place.

Agreed on the last point, and your earlier points may well apply to things like blank-firers, but I think the main reason Zamak is used is that it can be cast in a mould, dramatically reducing production costs over any kind of machined metal.

[clarky]

Agreed on the last point, and your earlier points may well apply to things like blank-firers, but I think the main reason Zamak is used is that it can be cast in a mould, dramatically reducing production costs over any kind of machined metal.

Bright boy

[Geezer]

Bright boy

Yeah, that's me.

Do you still have LP53 upgrade kits/bits still available? I have one (and a Predom) inbound fairly soon.

[clarky]

Yeah, that's me.

Do you still have LP53 upgrade kits/bits still available? I have one (and a Predom) inbound fairly soon.

Yeah can sort you out no problem....PM me

[clarky]

Finally found a way forward for replacing the now extinct 53 piston head.
Tried the TR Robb ptfe version....or at least my own version ....it works fine but is a touch slammy.
Got a few more FPS ....hardly needed any lube and quite consistant. Harvey on here reporting similar but i wasnt satisfied.
Decided to order a neoprene parachute washer available on flee bee ...intended as a replacement for the HW25.
Its in at 22.2mm dia. but the 53 requires 22.7mm to seal.
Dried fired twice and put about 80 shots through her. Velocity went up in a slow curve ....from an initial drop from 467 fps (leather seal unit and my tune kit onboard) to 433 fps then rising back up to 458 fps after the run in described.
I removed the piston and inspected.
The seal lip was now just in full contact with the piston wall.
It may already be ideal...or could go on to expand further ...slowing, or increasing vel...
Will report back in a week.

The new head required machining of a new steel key hole piston head unit which was pretty simple in the finish. No screws i just used the std type flange used on the hw45 machined onto a TR RObb type head he uses.