Latest re: Steyr LP50

[Cocksure]

Im guessing even if you wanted one they fall under the 97 pistol ban.

This is the point, ALL self loading pistols are banned, single shot only, the police are arguing that this Steyr is in fact a self loader....which it aint!
( whatever the power if it self loads it's banned...the power is unimportant)

What does self load mean? In relation to current toys and airguns? I refer you back to Tac..

[bighit]

This is the point, ALL self loading pistols are banned, single shot only, the police are arguing that this Steyr is in fact a self loader....which it aint!
( whatever the power if it self loads it's banned...the power is unimportant)

this was my point


Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms. More than that and you must have an FAC - less and you don't

[Murphy]

Does anybody have a copy of the CPS letter that states self loading airguns (Including rifles) falls out of the remit of firearms classification?

[Cocksure]

this was my point


Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms. More than that and you must have an FAC - less and you don't

Not if it 'self loads'.....then the power is meaningless because it's banned for it's action, this is why all the gassers were banned originaly, until their loading systems,same as Steyrs, were deemed legal. I think you'd have a hard time getting an FAC section allowing you to own a 'self loading' pistol.....because they throw one up the spout thereby loading themselves, banned!!!!

For self loading read 'automatic'... Banned banned banned!!!

Whereas....

Semi auto....sub 6 ft......Legal, yay!!!

Auto, pulling trigger fires bullet/projectile and the weapons action cycles the next INTO the firing position/barrel leaving the weapon loaded AND cocked....

Semi auto, gassers, Steyr...the trigger pull moves the next projectile in first stage, and fires it in second leaving the chamber empty.....EMPTY unless trigger is pulled again.

[bighit]

But could you own one before 97 ?

I seem to remember FX made a very nice one for the Americans.

from a thread on this forum. a reply from BASC


Section 5(1)(aba) does indeed exclude air weapons but this section was written so that pistols exhibiting a muzzle energy less than 6 ft lbs as set by the 1969 Rules (as amended) would not be caught by this new provision. However prior to 1997, a pistol exhibiting over 6ft lbs of muzzle energy would be a Section 1 firearm, but post 1997 such a pistol that would have been in the Section 1 category were then banned as Section 5(1)(aba) re-classifies all short firearms that would have otherwise been Section 1 prior to 1997

[eyebull]

how many uk shooters have an FAC air pistol?

I'm guessing none.

Brocock TAC owners

[bighit]

Does anybody have a copy of the CPS letter that states self loading airguns (Including rifles) falls out of the remit of firearms classification?

Air Weapons
An air weapon is defined, under section 1(3)(b) and 57(4) of the Firearms Act 1968 as:
"an air rifle, air gun or air pistol which does not fall within section 5 (1) (a) and which is not of a type declared by rules made by the Secretary of State under section 53 of the Firearms Act to be specially dangerous".
Any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system is a prohibited weapon: section 5(1)(af) Firearms Act 1968 e.g. a Brocock
An air rifle is "specially dangerous" if it is capable of discharging a missile so that the missile has, on being discharged from the muzzle of the weapon, kinetic energy in excess in the case of a pistol of 6 ft lbs or, in the case of an air weapon other than an air pistol, 12 ft lbs: Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969 rr. 2, 3 (Archbold 24-8a.)
Paintball guns are a type of air weapon. The Home Office regard self-loading or pump action rifled airguns (including paintball guns) as outside the scope of the Firearms Act, unless they are sufficiently powerful to fall within the category of a "specially dangerous" air weapon (Archbold 24.8a). Paintball guns could be considered imitation firearms


http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/#a01

[Murphy]

Brocock TAC owners

And didn't only about 20% of them get licensed?!

So we have lots of probably unknowing criminals out there!

[bighit]

Brocock TAC owners

under 6 ftlbs though

Any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system is a prohibited weapon: section 5(1)(af) Firearms Act 1968 e.g. a Brocock

[tacfoley]

Airguns are classed as firearms in the 1968 Firearms Act, just that sub 12 ft-lb does not require a certificate. In other words just because they do not need a FAC, does not mean they are not firearms - the poster to whom you replied (mcmj) was right.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. It's semantics then, rather than fact?

Possession of a firearm necessitates having a firearms certificate.

But a 6/12 ft lb airgun is a firearm that does NOT require a firearms certificate.

I'm obviously missing something here that is deeply significant. Please explain.

tac

[bighit]

And didn't only about 20% of them get licensed?!

So we have lots of probably unknowing criminals out there!

70k to 80k sold and 5k to 6k licensed or handed in apparently.

[Murphy]

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/#a01

Also wasn't there a Home Office guidance letter from the top man stating the same thing?

[RobF]

this was my point


Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms. More than that and you must have an FAC - less and you don't

That isn't correct. Air pistols such as Brococks are sub 6ft-lb and are Section 5, because they are defined in Section 5 af

any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system;]

[tacfoley]

This is the point, ALL self loading pistols are banned, single shot only, the police are arguing that this Steyr is in fact a self loader....which it aint!
( whatever the power if it self loads it's banned...the power is unimportant)

What does self load mean? In relation to current toys and airguns? I refer you back to Tac..

I give up.

Meanwhile, I'm going out in the backyard to shoot my Steyr LP5 for which I have no FAC or any other kind of permit.

tac

[bighit]

Also wasn't there a Home Office guidance letter from the top man stating the same thing?

never seen it to be honest.