My 308 lapua brass won't fl size....help/advice needed

[vbull]

Any of you guys ever come across a batch of once fired 308 Lapua brass that just won't FL re-size ? I have 100 once fired, ( through an SSG ) brass that I want to put through my AIAW rifle so I've cleaned the brass inspected each one cleaned my RCBS die, lubed the cases with a smear of Imperial Sizing Wax and set the die up in the normal way for a full length re-size but the amount of force I'm having to put on the press lever is exceptional to the point where I know things are going to get stuck, so I back them out way before they are de-primed. I've been reloading for years, both pistol and rifle but never encountered this before on once fired brass. Anyone else had this happen to them before and if so what was your solution ? Thanks. Forgot to say that the brass is 2.0075" long so no need for trimming yet and have also messed around with varying the amount of lube but no difference.

[mag44uk]

Presumably the brass wont fit your rifle?

[Simon_S]

Is it 308win palma

[bullbarrel]

Try measuring the outside diameter of the case and see how far out of spec it is. Could the original rifle be a tad bigger than it should be?

[vbull]

Presumably the brass wont fit your rifle?

Correct, won't fit.

[Black Beard]

Has it been fired in a military spec 7.62 rifle? There are meant to be differences, as this bit of random internet chatter says:

Indeed, cheaper commercial ammo canfailat the 1.638 headspace (e.g., UMC) in an M14/M1 Garand. Many military gas guns (e.g., M14 Rifles & M60 Machine guns) runwildlylong headspace by commercial (SAAMI) standards (U.S. Militaryfieldreject limit for the M60 & M14 is 1.6455, nearly 16 thousandths beyond commercial (SAAMI) GO, & nearly 8 thousandthsbeyondcommercial (SAAMI)fieldreject limit!).

[MikB]

Regarding military chamberings, they could indeed be overlong.

What happened in my 303 SMLE chamber was that the shoulder was more than 1/16" further from the bolt face than nominal. The case shoulder wouldn't roll forward, so the case body stretched just in front of the web, and swelled out by quite few thou because of the tapered chamber. I could FL resize the cases, but if I did it just squashed back the swelling in front of the web and disguised the problem whilst also probably aggravating it by working the brass. I got several case head separations on reloads - none of them dangerous - so I eventually gave up and stuck to factory rounds.

It might well not be possible for this to happen with a less tapered and rimless round like .308, but I think the advice above to measure diameters around the case head and just ahead of the web is good.

[tacfoley]

Has it been fired in a military spec 7.62 rifle? There are meant to be differences, as this bit of random internet chatter says:

Indeed, cheaper commercial ammo canfailat the 1.638 headspace (e.g., UMC) in an M14/M1 Garand. Many military gas guns (e.g., M14 Rifles & M60 Machine guns) runwildlylong headspace by commercial (SAAMI) standards (U.S. Militaryfieldreject limit for the M60 & M14 is 1.6455, nearly 16 thousandths beyond commercial (SAAMI) GO, & nearly 8 thousandthsbeyondcommercial (SAAMI)fieldreject limit!).

The Steyr SSG is not a military spec rifle.

Here in UK an M14 is a long distant memory, as we have not been allowed to have the real thing since 1988.

All firearms made in Europe conform to the CIP chamber dimensions, not SAAMI - Steyr is an Austrian brand, and as such uses the CIP dimensions.

The AIAW is made in England, and does likewise.

tac

[vbull]

Thanks for all the replies. I've managed to bump the shoulders back a bit with a 308 body die just enough so they will fit in the AW rifle and I've neck sized with a Wilson die for now although using the Wilson only sizes 3/16" of neck but at least I'll be able to fire them. Going back to the original problem, I tried a Redding FL sizer and still the cases won't size, bit of a mystery !

[Black Beard]

Okay, maybe either a over-stressed rifle with a bad bolt or the loads have been excessive and the cartidge head has bulged (measure the cartridge dimensions)?

To get an idea of headspace, get a precisely made cup shaped object (pistol cartridge or Lee powder scoops work well) and put it over the neck of the case. Then measure the cartridge base to the top of the cup with a vernier. Then compare to a fired case from your rifle. The size of the cup doesn't matter as you are only after + or - relative to each other. The cup shape should be 0.4" internal diameter but it doen't have to be exact as long as you are away from the curves where the taper changes.

The difference between your rifle's fired case and the lapua brass should give you an idea of whether the shoulder on the lapua brass is forwards

If you compare a fired and sized case, this method also lets you quickly dial your sizing die in towards your chamber dimensions (so less unnecessary working of brass). Each 5 degrees of turn on a standard reloading die is almost exactly 1 thou of an inch of movement.

BB

[vbull]

Okay, maybe either a over-stressed rifle with a bad bolt or the loads have been excessive and the cartidge head has bulged (measure the cartridge dimensions)?

To get an idea of headspace, get a precisely made cup shaped object (pistol cartridge or Lee powder scoops work well) and put it over the neck of the case. Then measure the cartridge base to the top of the cup with a vernier. Then compare to a fired case from your rifle. The size of the cup doesn't matter as you are only after + or - relative to each other. The cup shape should be 0.4" internal diameter but it doen't have to be exact as long as you are away from the curves where the taper changes.

The difference between your rifle's fired case and the lapua brass should give you an idea of whether the shoulder on the lapua brass is forwards

If you compare a fired and sized case, this method also lets you quickly dial your sizing die in towards your chamber dimensions (so less unnecessary working of brass). Each 5 degrees of turn on a standard reloading die is almost exactly 1 thou of an inch of movement.

BB

Done the above and it seems I've had to bump the shoulder back almost 2 thou for the brass to fit the AW. Shouldn't think this would have anything to do with the fact the brass won't FL size..

[223AI]

Is your die set up correctly?

With lee dies at least if you set the die so it just touches the case holder then try and close on a fired case you will generally find that the case will not FL size and there will be a gap between the holder and bottom of the die. If you then screw in the die the further 1.5 (or thereabouts) turns stated in the instructions the case will FL size and you'll be able to push the case holder right up to the bottom of the die.

[vbull]

Yep, all set up correctly as per usual, just a slight amount of cam over. First tried to size with my Redding Turret press, realised something was not right, thought maybe I'm going senile or something so went away had a cuppa came back and then placed the die in a Forster coaxial press, same thing so changed the FL die from RCBS to Redding with the same thing, so tight that to pull further than I have done will cause a stuck case. I've looked around on the net but cannot find anyone else who's experienced this so although I can now fit the brass in the AW after bumping the shoulder I feel the brass must be unusually thick/hard so may just bin the lot. All very strange as I watched the guy fire these in his Steyr, they were factory Lapua 168 grain Scenar and he had no drama's at all, they appeared to extract etc all OK. I really don't think it's worth all the grief for the sake of 100 brass but I don't like re-loading mysteries, they worry me, especially at my age when I can't remember what I had for dinner last night.

[tacfoley]

Very odd, that. I use the same set-up, exactly, to shoot the same 155gr Lapua Scenar-bulleted rounds in four different .308Win rifles. Nothing changes from one rifle to another. All four rifles, from four different makers, take every round I've ever loaded and all four shoot more or less the same.

Me, I be's checking that Steyr of his'n, although one of the rifles I shoot is an SSG69 from the mid-70's.

tac

[223AI]

Yep, all set up correctly as per usual, just a slight amount of cam over. First tried to size with my Redding Turret press, realised something was not right, thought maybe I'm going senile or something so went away had a cuppa came back and then placed the die in a Forster coaxial press, same thing so changed the FL die from RCBS to Redding with the same thing, so tight that to pull further than I have done will cause a stuck case. I've looked around on the net but cannot find anyone else who's experienced this so although I can now fit the brass in the AW after bumping the shoulder I feel the brass must be unusually thick/hard so may just bin the lot. All very strange as I watched the guy fire these in his Steyr, they were factory Lapua 168 grain Scenar and he had no drama's at all, they appeared to extract etc all OK. I really don't think it's worth all the grief for the sake of 100 brass but I don't like re-loading mysteries, they worry me, especially at my age when I can't remember what I had for dinner last night.

Most odd! Well if you do decide to bin them can I be cheeky and say I'll take them off your hands and cover postage? I'm intrigued and hate to see 'good' brass going in the bin