Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Relum Pistols + Mainspring scrounge!

  1. #1
    ggggr's Avatar
    ggggr is offline part time super hero and seeker of justice
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Flintshire Ch6 sort of near bagillt
    Posts
    2,379

    Relum Pistols + Mainspring scrounge!

    Here is a cut and paste of what I have just put up on another forum. If anyone can help please pm me. Thanks.



    Ok--let's get the scrounging out of the way first. I'm in need of a mainspring to fit a Relum Hurricane, the underlever pistol. It actually has 2 mainsprings (like the rifles) but I am not too concerned with the inner. The outer I have is more or less 130mm long, about 16.1mm od and about 2mm thick. The pistol has been shooting all over the place and has a heavy trigger, so I wanted to try leaving the inner spring out. The accuracy went worse. I found a bit of spring that is actually too small OD but a bit stiffer and tried that. Power and accuracy went up. I would however like to fit either the proper spring,as I am not sure, or something with the figures I gave, but maybe longer.
    Ok that is out of the way, so let's talk about the pistols.
    The Hurricane is an underlever with a swing out steel breech, that I believe Gamo sort of copied for the Falcon and Center. The Tempest is a break barrel. I think John Milewski tested one in AGW in March 2016.
    I was lucky enough to get one of these by accident (honestly) recently.
    Now the really strange thing is, for the more technically minded among you, is that although both pistols seem to have been produced between 1957 and 1963, is that they seem to share no parts (not checked the stock bolt yet). I think both models had the Tornado style rear sight at some point, but the rearsight on my Tempest break barrel is more like a Bsa Cadet sight.
    The foresights are different, the pistons and trigger are different and even the shoulder stocks are different.
    For a quick run down, the Hurricane, underlever has a piston with a rod and the sear is a vertical thing a bit like a barrel plunger and is pulled down by another sear. I think maybe this is why the trigger is heavy as this plunger does not pivot. The trigger spring sits in it and locates in a hole in the grips like a Diana G4 or Slavia ZVP.
    The Tempest break barrel has a piston with a cut out, like a small version of the Webley Hawks and the sear engages in the cut out. The sear spring on this sits in the trigger housing at the rear and into a small hole on the underside of the sear. The trigger itself has a hairpin spring a bit like an Original 5 thing, to tension it. My pistol has a single mainspring and no guide, but I know the pistol has been messed with as it had a cock up trigger spring fitter.
    The REALLY odd thing for me is that the shoulder stocks are different widths, lengths and slightly different in design.
    I cannot do pictures, but I hope that someone finds this of use or interest.
    Cooler than Mace Windu with a FRO, walking into Members Only and saying "Bitches, be cool"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Near Auckland
    Posts
    1,320
    Yes that forked sear is an interesting concept Guy.
    The Hurricane that we have, hereby known as the 'Phutta', has deep axial grooves down the bore. Jeff spent a long time with the lap tool before giving it up and putting it aside for the duration.
    It appears that someone has attempted to ream out pitting at the far end and succeeded in screwing up the bore.

    Cheers.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wanted: rear sight for Milbro Diana MK4, the early slide elevation type. Or images to replicate from.

  3. #3
    ggggr's Avatar
    ggggr is offline part time super hero and seeker of justice
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Flintshire Ch6 sort of near bagillt
    Posts
    2,379
    A bump if anyone has a suitable mainspring.
    Approximately 130mm long 16.1OD and wire 2.1mm thick. Obviously if the spring is longer I could cut it down.
    If you can have a look in your old spring boxes
    Thanks.
    Last edited by ggggr; 29-06-2017 at 07:12 AM.
    Cooler than Mace Windu with a FRO, walking into Members Only and saying "Bitches, be cool"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Chester
    Posts
    5,486

    240 Magnum

    Hello Guy,I might have offered this to you before.
    158mm long,OD 16 and ID 11,28 free coils,any use to you? .

  5. #5
    ggggr's Avatar
    ggggr is offline part time super hero and seeker of justice
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Flintshire Ch6 sort of near bagillt
    Posts
    2,379
    Quote Originally Posted by ggggr View Post
    Here is a cut and paste of what I have just put up on another forum. If anyone can help please pm me. Thanks.



    Ok--let's get the scrounging out of the way first. I'm in need of a mainspring to fit a Relum Hurricane, the underlever pistol. It actually has 2 mainsprings (like the rifles) but I am not too concerned with the inner. The outer I have is more or less 130mm long, about 16.1mm od and about 2mm thick. The pistol has been shooting all over the place and has a heavy trigger, so I wanted to try leaving the inner spring out. The accuracy went worse. I found a bit of spring that is actually too small OD but a bit stiffer and tried that. Power and accuracy went up. I would however like to fit either the proper spring,as I am not sure, or something with the figures I gave, but maybe longer.
    Ok that is out of the way, so let's talk about the pistols.
    The Hurricane is an underlever with a swing out steel breech, that I believe Gamo sort of copied for the Falcon and Center. The Tempest is a break barrel. I think John Milewski tested one in AGW in March 2016.
    I was lucky enough to get one of these by accident (honestly) recently.
    Now the really strange thing is, for the more technically minded among you, is that although both pistols seem to have been produced between 1957 and 1963, is that they seem to share no parts (not checked the stock bolt yet). I think both models had the Tornado style rear sight at some point, but the rearsight on my Tempest break barrel is more like a Bsa Cadet sight.
    The foresights are different, the pistons and trigger are different and even the shoulder stocks are different.
    For a quick run down, the Hurricane, underlever has a piston with a rod and the sear is a vertical thing a bit like a barrel plunger and is pulled down by another sear. I think maybe this is why the trigger is heavy as this plunger does not pivot. The trigger spring sits in it and locates in a hole in the grips like a Diana G4 or Slavia ZVP.
    The Tempest break barrel has a piston with a cut out, like a small version of the Webley Hawks and the sear engages in the cut out. The sear spring on this sits in the trigger housing at the rear and into a small hole on the underside of the sear. The trigger itself has a hairpin spring a bit like an Original 5 thing, to tension it. My pistol has a single mainspring and no guide, but I know the pistol has been messed with as it had a cock up trigger spring fitter.
    The REALLY odd thing for me is that the shoulder stocks are different widths, lengths and slightly different in design.
    I cannot do pictures, but I hope that someone finds this of use or interest.
    A parcel containing Relum underlever pistol bits arrived yesterday. I hadet a look at them and know that some bits will be needed for the 2nd one (hopefully not the first), so if you have a dead one I know I'll need the plunger like sear and cockng arm pivot bolt.

    I have managed to get one pistol firing very weakly and could do with a different mainspring to try. I think something like an old Webley Mk1 might be able to be cut down if anybody has one?
    Some interesting things showed up lookng at the bits. The Hurricane (underlever) has sights like the Tempest (break barrel) I have. The plunger like sear in the one I was playing with today is different to the one on mine and requires the gun to be stripped differently. Also, the other piston is different to the one in the pistol, having a shorter rod, making me wonder whether it was for .177 or .22 or another reason. Also, one stock does not have holes for a shoulder stock.
    I hope this is of some use to some Relum fans out there.

    Update---I've tried the BSA 240 Magnum spring that John sent me.The gun is a bit stiff to cock and is not exactly a powerhouse, but it is working now and if can get another tired spring (BSA 240 Magnum or Webley pistol) I may have a tinker/ cut them down and see if I can get a balance between ease of cocking/little noise and reasonable power and accuracy.

    To Phil---PjBingham----thank you for the call last night. It saved me a lot of time and effort.The offer to return the pistol to you stands for a short while, until I get "Detachment issues"
    Cooler than Mace Windu with a FRO, walking into Members Only and saying "Bitches, be cool"

  6. #6
    pjbingham is offline My mother was flexible,but couldn't do Thursdays
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Maidstone
    Posts
    719
    Quote Originally Posted by ggggr View Post
    A parcel containing Relum underlever pistol bits arrived yesterday. I hadet a look at them and know that some bits will be needed for the 2nd one (hopefully not the first), so if you have a dead one I know I'll need the plunger like sear and cockng arm pivot bolt.

    I have managed to get one pistol firing very weakly and could do with a different mainspring to try. I think something like an old Webley Mk1 might be able to be cut down if anybody has one?
    Some interesting things showed up lookng at the bits. The Hurricane (underlever) has sights like the Tempest (break barrel) I have. The plunger like sear in the one I was playing with today is different to the one on mine and requires the gun to be stripped differently. Also, the other piston is different to the one in the pistol, having a shorter rod, making me wonder whether it was for .177 or .22 or another reason. Also, one stock does not have holes for a shoulder stock.
    I hope this is of some use to some Relum fans out there.

    Update---I've tried the BSA 240 Magnum spring that John sent me.The gun is a bit stiff to cock and is not exactly a powerhouse, but it is working now and if can get another tired spring (BSA 240 Magnum or Webley pistol) I may have a tinker/ cut them down and see if I can get a balance between ease of cocking/little noise and reasonable power and accuracy.

    To Phil---PjBingham----thank you for the call last night. It saved me a lot of time and effort.The offer to return the pistol to you stands for a short while, until I get "Detachment issues"
    No worries Guy and crack on mate with no fear of detatchment issues becoming a problem,they are all yours

  7. #7
    ggggr's Avatar
    ggggr is offline part time super hero and seeker of justice
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Flintshire Ch6 sort of near bagillt
    Posts
    2,379
    I've had some more "fun" tonight trying to sort out bits of dead Relum underlever pistols. I had already found that there are two lengths of piston rod, that stick out the back of the piston either 13.5mm or 28mm (14.5mm difference)------but tonight dsicovered that the rods are different thicknesses (5.8 and 6.2mm) and different threads into the piston and the head that holds the piston washer on. Also, the guides I have, will not go over the thicker rod and if the guide is opened up a little, then it wont fit the inner mainspring! This makes me wonder if they all had guides or at some point they let the inner spring act as a guide.
    I don't know what sort of numbers these pistols were produced in, but so far I have see them in .177 and .22, grips with and without holes in for the shoulder stock, 2 different types of piston and 2 different types of rearsight. These variation don't seem to be dependant on calibre.


    Update. WE HAVE A PULSE! A sear swap got the thing cocking and firing, so I am now waiting for another sear to arrive and i can set about getting it "something like"
    Last edited by ggggr; 13-12-2017 at 07:03 PM.
    Cooler than Mace Windu with a FRO, walking into Members Only and saying "Bitches, be cool"

  8. #8
    ggggr's Avatar
    ggggr is offline part time super hero and seeker of justice
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Flintshire Ch6 sort of near bagillt
    Posts
    2,379
    More Relumy stuff. This is sort of up elsewhere but may be of some use here. Firstly, some pics by Frakor from Danny's site http://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.c...m-air-pistols/
    Now some findings from stripping the underlever and the break barrel.

    From what I can gather, the 2 pistols share the same grip blank (but slightly different relief where the action goes + the Tempest break barrel does not have a hole on the underside for adjusting the trigger screw), trigger guard and Stock bolt/ grip screw, the trigger itself although the break barrel does not have the hairpin spring in the gap(Frakor's picture show one so maybe it should), having a spring under the sear instead AND the long cocking arm. The Tempest has a thicker and longer, short cocking link than the Hurricane.
    The cylinders and pistons on the 2 guns are different diameters. On the Hurricane underlever pistol the cylinder diameter is roughly 26.5mm and the piston diameter 22.85mm. On the Tempest break barrel, the cylinder is 23.8mm diameter and the piston 20.5mm diameter. I've also found that the cylinder end pin on the Typhoon has a bigger diameter than the Hurricane. It is interesting that the Typhoon has a rivetted on piston washer instead of a special nut. Going off what ccdjgn has said, I guess that the break barrel came after the underlever and they used the grip blanks, stock bolts, trigger and trigger guard for cheapness. I'd guess that is why there is no spring guide as well and a single spring?. I find it odd that the diameters of the cylinders is different and wonder why?
    Cooler than Mace Windu with a FRO, walking into Members Only and saying "Bitches, be cool"

  9. #9
    ggggr's Avatar
    ggggr is offline part time super hero and seeker of justice
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Flintshire Ch6 sort of near bagillt
    Posts
    2,379
    Quote Originally Posted by slow_runner View Post
    Yes that forked sear is an interesting concept Guy.
    The Hurricane that we have, hereby known as the 'Phutta', has deep axial grooves down the bore. Jeff spent a long time with the lap tool before giving it up and putting it aside for the duration.
    It appears that someone has attempted to ream out pitting at the far end and succeeded in screwing up the bore.

    Cheers.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wanted: rear sight for Milbro Diana MK4, the early slide elevation type. Or images to replicate from.
    Ken --could your mate Jeff put a thin walled sleeve down the cylinder and then turn the piston down to suit? Just thinking as a lot of people sleeve the Hw's etc
    Cooler than Mace Windu with a FRO, walking into Members Only and saying "Bitches, be cool"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •