Matching oil container for a 1926 Webley pistol would be glass?

[45flint]

Trying to create a historically correct cased set for a US imported Webley pistol made 1926? I doubt that there is any Webley oil imported. You would go into a hardware store here and pick up gun oil. In the 1926 I believe, like the early Webley oil, it would be in a glass corked bottle? See US gun companies going from glass to tin containers here, just like Webley. I think the oil tins came later?

Just found a hardware catalog online for 1926. Looks like both glass and tin cans were sold. The glass was smaller and cheaper, probably on its way out. Look at 3 in 1 on this page. I see very similar types for Winchester and Remington gun oil.

https://i.imgur.com/0WBVF5U.jpg

[Abasmajor]

Hi,

You are perfectly correct with your assumption that the first Webley oil was supplied in bottles with the can arriving later. If you go to Danny's gallery you will be able to see some nice pictures of the bottle and subsequent cans.

Unfortunately, only a few original bottles are known to have survived which would be reflected in the price, so in the unlikely event one could be found I would expect the asking price to be around the £400-£500 mark here in the UK.

Regards
Brian

[45flint]

Hi,

You are perfectly correct with your assumption that the first Webley oil was supplied in bottles with the can arriving later. If you go to Danny's gallery you will be able to see some nice pictures of the bottle and subsequent cans.

Unfortunately, only a few original bottles are known to have survived which would be reflected in the price, so in the unlikely event one could be found I would expect the asking price to be around the £400-£500 mark here in the UK.

Regards
Brian

Ironically here it seems the surviving glass corked gun oil bottles are cheaper than the tin ones of the same period? I think that’s cause there are a lot of collectors of tin oil containers and probably a lot of glass ones out there. My quest is a small corked bottle of gun oil.

[Abasmajor]

Ironically here it seems the surviving glass corked gun oil bottles are cheaper than the tin ones of the same period? I think that’s cause there are a lot of collectors of tin oil containers and probably a lot of glass ones out there. My quest is a small corked bottle of gun oil.

Hi,

As you are probably already aware, the pre-war Webley cans were sold containing either No1 or No2 oil depending on the type of piston seal. The No1 oil was a mineral oil (Neatsfoot?) intended for use with leather washers whereas the No 2 oil was basically an SAE 30 engine oil and meant for use with the metallic ring seals.

The cans were marked accordingly so that the purchaser was sure to be using the correct product for the intended application.

Regards
Brian

[Troubledshooter]

The Webley glass oil bottles as shown on Danny's site were introduced around 1946 due to a shortage of steel for the cans, so the 1920's onward oil containers would have been metal cans.

[45flint]

The Webley glass oil bottles as shown on Danny's site were introduced around 1946 due to a shortage of steel for the cans, so the 1920's onward oil containers would have been metal cans.

I think there was a 1920s glass bottle and a 1946 bottle. In US it seems the 1920’s had both glass and metal, metal took over in the 1930s.

[Troubledshooter]

The earliest catalogue I have from the twenties, No.30, showing the Mk.1, Junior Wood grip & Senior Straight grip only shows additional pictures of a Box of Pellets and a Target Holder, but no oil container.
The C35 catalogue from the thirties shows a Valvespout oil tin, as does the C67 from 1938.
The 1923 Mk.1 Air Rifle booklet, where the rifle was advertised @72/6 with spare barrels @25/-, also does not contain any illustration or mention of any oil container.
The Mk.1 Air pistol booklet similarly does not mention or illustrate any oil container, but does mention the availability of pellets and target holder.
The Hoffman flyer from the same period, where it was advertised @$15 with a spare barrel available @$4.65, is similar to the above.
I can find no mention of any Webley oil bottles prior to 1946.
I have contacted a renowned expert on all things Webley for his input, but until he replies JM may be able to shed some more light on this subject.

[pnird]

Just to remind you; Neat's Foot Oil is Calf's Foot oil, so it ain't mineral! It has traditionally been used to waterproof leather items like boots. Hope this Helps

John

[45flint]

Could it be that when Webley pistols first came out they did not have their own oil yet? Marketing kicks in and they find they can get a premium price for small containers of neatsfoot oil and 30 weight motor oil with their name on it? I read the instructions on the inside lid of my 1926? Mark II Target and they never mention oil at all they do say Webley pellets. And they mention using the cleaning brush. If they had Webley Oil hard to believe they wouldn’t make a pitch for it?

Could be the contemporary oil container is a gun or household oil bought in a hardware store at that time. That’s why I’m looking for a 1920s glass gun oil bottle. Putting a 1930s-40s oil can just doesn’t seem to represent the age of the gun? And of course it’s probably a lot cheaper! Lol

[Josie & John]

When Webley & Scott Ltd introduced the Mark I air pistol in 1924, they recommended Neatsfoot oil for lubricating the leather piston and breech washers. This is evidenced by an early Component Parts List, which mentioned Webley could supply Neatsfoot oil in bottles. There was no mention of the trigger adjusting screw on the parts list so whilst undated, the item probably dates from early 1925. No example of such a bottle is known and it is possible they were never Webley branded.

The instructions found inside early carton lids for the Mark I air pistol intended for the spring clip version also referred to Neatsfoot oil.

After the Mark II pistol and Mark I rifle with their metal piston rings were introduced in 1925, a thicker lubricant such as motor oil was determined to be more suitable for lubrication of these rings. They worked on a similar principle to the internal combustion engine and Webley therefore introduced a second grade of oil. Consequently Webley oil was supplied in two grades: No 1 for leather washers and No 2 for metal piston rings.

An undated Webley advertising leaflet for No 1 and No 2 oil included a line drawing of a tall Webley branded tin with an offset screw off spout. The tin’s cap was soldered to a screw off spout at 90 degrees, so either could be used and retained together. Webley referred to it as a ‘Filler Spout’. This leaflet is the earliest reference to Webley oil tins and believed to date from after 1925 and prior to the Valvespout tins, which were patented by Parker Hale in 1931. A tin in poor external condition is known to have survived, which has a centrally located filler spout.

Hope this helps.

John M

[Abasmajor]

When Webley & Scott Ltd introduced the Mark I air pistol in 1924, they recommended Neatsfoot oil for lubricating the leather piston and breech washers. This is evidenced by an early Component Parts List, which mentioned Webley could supply Neatsfoot oil in bottles. There was no mention of the trigger adjusting screw on the parts list so whilst undated, the item probably dates from early 1925. No example of such a bottle is known and it is possible they were never Webley branded.

The instructions found inside early carton lids for the Mark I air pistol intended for the spring clip version also referred to Neatsfoot oil.

After the Mark II pistol and Mark I rifle with their metal piston rings were introduced in 1925, a thicker lubricant such as motor oil was determined to be more suitable for lubrication of these rings. They worked on a similar principle to the internal combustion engine and Webley therefore introduced a second grade of oil. Consequently Webley oil was supplied in two grades: No 1 for leather washers and No 2 for metal piston rings.

An undated Webley advertising leaflet for No 1 and No 2 oil included a line drawing of a tall Webley branded tin with an offset screw off spout. The tin’s cap was soldered to a screw off spout at 90 degrees, so either could be used and retained together. Webley referred to it as a ‘Filler Spout’. This leaflet is the earliest reference to Webley oil tins and believed to date from after 1925 and prior to the Valvespout tins, which were patented by Parker Hale in 1931. A tin in poor external condition is known to have survived, which has a centrally located filler spout.

Hope this helps.

John M

Hello John,

Thanks for that which seems to clear things up nicely.

Regards
Brian

[45flint]

When Webley & Scott Ltd introduced the Mark I air pistol in 1924, they recommended Neatsfoot oil for lubricating the leather piston and breech washers. This is evidenced by an early Component Parts List, which mentioned Webley could supply Neatsfoot oil in bottles. There was no mention of the trigger adjusting screw on the parts list so whilst undated, the item probably dates from early 1925. No example of such a bottle is known and it is possible they were never Webley branded.

The instructions found inside early carton lids for the Mark I air pistol intended for the spring clip version also referred to Neatsfoot oil.

After the Mark II pistol and Mark I rifle with their metal piston rings were introduced in 1925, a thicker lubricant such as motor oil was determined to be more suitable for lubrication of these rings. They worked on a similar principle to the internal combustion engine and Webley therefore introduced a second grade of oil. Consequently Webley oil was supplied in two grades: No 1 for leather washers and No 2 for metal piston rings.

An undated Webley advertising leaflet for No 1 and No 2 oil included a line drawing of a tall Webley branded tin with an offset screw off spout. The tin’s cap was soldered to a screw off spout at 90 degrees, so either could be used and retained together. Webley referred to it as a ‘Filler Spout’. This leaflet is the earliest reference to Webley oil tins and believed to date from after 1925 and prior to the Valvespout tins, which were patented by Parker Hale in 1931. A tin in poor external condition is known to have survived, which has a centrally located filler spout.

Hope this helps.

John M

As usual John thanks much, well done. Only thing that still puzzles me is why the instructions on the inside box lid of my early version Mark 2 Target have no mention of oil when you reference the early Mark 1s referred to neatfoots oil?

[Josie & John]

As usual John thanks much, well done. Only thing that still puzzles me is why the instructions on the inside box lid of my early version Mark 2 Target have no mention of oil when you reference the early Mark 1s referred to neatfoots oil?

Hi 45flint,

That's an interesting question. I only have one boxed Webley Mk II Target pistol and the box instructions do mention Webley No 2 oil. It is slightly later than your example and I wonder if the earliest Mk IIs were produced before Webley introduced No 1 and No 2 oil?

If possible, I would appreciate a picture of your instructions as they sound a little different to the norm.

By the way, I have also used an empty 3-in-1 bottle as it is period correct for a cased pre WW1 BSA air rifle I have.

Kind regards,

John

[Abasmajor]

Hi 45flint,

That's an interesting question. I only have one boxed Webley Mk II Target pistol and the box instructions do mention Webley No 2 oil. It is slightly later than your example and I wonder if the earliest Mk IIs were produced before Webley introduced No 1 and No 2 oil?

If possible, I would appreciate a picture of your instructions as they sound a little different to the norm.

By the way, I have also used an empty 3-in-1 bottle as it is period correct for a cased pre WW1 BSA air rifle I have.

Kind regards,

John

For what it's worth, my boxed Mk2 Target Ser No 24588 also references the use of No2 oil in the instructions pasted to the back of the box lid.

Regards
Brian

[45flint]

Hi 45flint,

That's an interesting question. I only have one boxed Webley Mk II Target pistol and the box instructions do mention Webley No 2 oil. It is slightly later than your example and I wonder if the earliest Mk IIs were produced before Webley introduced No 1 and No 2 oil?

If possible, I would appreciate a picture of your instructions as they sound a little different to the norm.

By the way, I have also used an empty 3-in-1 bottle as it is period correct for a cased pre WW1 BSA air rifle I have.

Kind regards,

John

Here are the instructions, I hope I didn’t read it incorrectly, lol. The serial number of the gun is there in pencil.

https://i.imgur.com/Qjnj4ia.jpg