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Thread: Things come to he who waits.

  1. #16
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    Please anyone: What are the differences between the Brum Supersport and the Challenger? And, was there a problem with roughness and spring breakages on the Supersport, or, was that the "foreign" Lightning? I must admit, I love my Challengers including a Carbine version......

    Kind regards to all.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRV1 View Post
    Please anyone: What are the differences between the Brum Supersport and the Challenger? And, was there a problem with roughness and spring breakages on the Supersport, or, was that the "foreign" Lightning? I must admit, I love my Challengers including a Carbine version......

    Kind regards to all.....
    Basically the Challenger is a break barrel version of the Airsporter, the piston has a rod which latches to the trigger mechanism and it also has the graceful and iconic sloping trigger block housing, the build quality seems to be a bit better as well.

    The Supersport is an enlarged and updated version of the Meteor, which means it can reach full power easier than the Meteor, the piston has no rod and the trigger sear locks onto the side of the piston, the rifle overall isn't as well built (in my eyes) as the Challenger as the trigger mechanism is housed in a cage welded to the cylinder and the trigger guard is a bit of bent metal.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    Many thanks Pete for your reply....Even though a Brum jobbie, not really up there with the quality collectables then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRV1 View Post
    Many thanks Pete for your reply....Even though a Brum jobbie, not really up there with the quality collectables then?
    BSA barrels are some of the best there are. Pete loves his BSAs so why not .. the SuperSport might be a bit unsophisticated, which means that they improve proportionately more when tuned, tweaked and fettled. Better job satisfaction for the home Tuna. And they haven't got that iconic but super-awkward curved back block like the mercs challengers and airsplinkers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRV1 View Post
    Many thanks Pete for your reply....Even though a Brum jobbie, not really up there with the quality collectables then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    BSA barrels are some of the best there are. Pete loves his BSAs so why not .. the SuperSport might be a bit unsophisticated, which means that they improve proportionately more when tuned, tweaked and fettled. Better job satisfaction for the home Tuna. And they haven't got that iconic but super-awkward curved back block like the mercs challengers and airsplinkers...
    Like what Alistair says, I'm probably being biased about the Supersport as I'm a lover of the Merc/Challenger/Airsporter because of their beautiful looks and I also believe at this point (but that could change in a few days time) that the Challenger could well be the best break barrel BSA have ever made (although the rear curved back block can be a pain sometimes when trying to get proper eye relief when fitting a scope), that could be tipped off the number one spot if the SS custom performs better after a fettle, as it has all the best bits of the Challenger but with an even better trigger (hopefully), I can't see why a Supersport can't be on someone's collectables list, it's been on mine for many years, albeit only the custom model, as like many people point out that because of BSA's (or most probably Gamo's) choice to use breech pivot pins instead of bolts ruins the normal models but at the end of the day it's basically a Merc without the rear trigger block, the barrel and cylinder are the same design, there's just a few more cheaper parts used (plastic rear end cap and bent metal trigger guard) but that shouldn't put anyone off collecting them or even using them as an normal everyday rifle, in fact many happily do.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    Thanks again Pete for your reply, re-reading my comment it didn't come out well, sounded negative and not quite what I meant - sorry. I love collecting, especially BSA; typically Superstars, Challenger, Mercury S, Airsporter S, RB2, Goldstar.... and the usual foreign stuff, I was wondering about the Brum Supersport being worthy of collecting, especially a custom job and now you have cleared that up. Either by myth, or propaganda, it seemed that the Lightning and possibly the Supersport(?) had problems with spring breakages and suffering quality issues - this may be related to the foreign BSA's? Not being knowledgeable of the model and the hear-say, it had put me off somewhat, please excuse my ignorance of the Supersport. Now being more knowledgeable from the replies, a Brum Supersport is worth looking out for.

    Kind regards....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRV1 View Post
    Thanks again Pete for your reply, re-reading my comment it didn't come out well, sounded negative and not quite what I meant - sorry. I love collecting, especially BSA; typically Superstars, Challenger, Mercury S, Airsporter S, RB2, Goldstar.... and the usual foreign stuff, I was wondering about the Brum Supersport being worthy of collecting, especially a custom job and now you have cleared that up. Either by myth, or propaganda, it seemed that the Lightning and possibly the Supersport(?) had problems with spring breakages and suffering quality issues - this may be related to the foreign BSA's? Not being knowledgeable of the model and the hear-say, it had put me off somewhat, please excuse my ignorance of the Supersport. Now being more knowledgeable from the replies, a Brum Supersport is worth looking out for.

    Kind regards....
    To be honest I wouldn't have a standard Supersport in my collection mainly due to the points I made on the other reply, now the SS Custom model luckily has the BSA "Deluxe" style Beech stock as like fitted to the Challenger and Super/Goldstar and the later Airsporter S (the mk1 & 2 S had Walnut stocks but the mk3 had the Deluxe Beech stock), which although is Beech and not always highly figured has the higher cheekpiece and the proper pistol grip checkering, which I just love the look of, if BSA had offered the same style of stocks in Walnut then I'd be giddy with joy, the only other Supersport model I'd have in my collection would be the later special edition XL model with the Walnut stock, the stock shape isn't as pleasing to me as the Deluxe version but it's still a nice looking rifle in Walnut, it's just the build quality of the action isn't as good as the earlier Brum made ones and the XL triggers can be a be a bit hit and miss.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    Can we have a picture Pete, theres none on Google.

    Also, did you say it has a PIN instead of a bolt holding the barrel on?

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    I knew the Custom had the nicer stock with the higher cheekpiece and also the Maxigrip scope rail. I didn't realise it had the breech bolt; cheers Pete.

    Many years ago I bought the standard Supersport to avoid the rail and put a Custom stock on it.

    Personally, I think the Challenger is a far more graceful rifle. And, with the smaller diameter piston (and lighter?) a sweeter shooter, generally? Certainly in my limited experience of them, the Challenger was the sweeter rifle.

    Hey, Pete, Mr Beeza Guru.....I'm hoping my Supersport project may arrive with me tomorrow. Just thinking slightly ahead to tinkering time.....it's yonks since I worked on that one of mine.....does piston removal entail sear removal or will pulling the trigger suffice?
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    Can we have a picture Pete, theres none on Google.

    Also, did you say it has a PIN instead of a bolt holding the barrel on?
    Please stop skipping past what's been said already Alistair

    The Custom comes with a bolt NOT a pin and if you go back to line no 8 there's a link to a sales page for a Custom.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyL View Post
    I knew the Custom had the nicer stock with the higher cheekpiece and also the Maxigrip scope rail. I didn't realise it had the breech bolt; cheers Pete.

    Many years ago I bought the standard Supersport to avoid the rail and put a Custom stock on it.

    Personally, I think the Challenger is a far more graceful rifle. And, with the smaller diameter piston (and lighter?) a sweeter shooter, generally? Certainly in my limited experience of them, the Challenger was the sweeter rifle.

    Hey, Pete, Mr Beeza Guru.....I'm hoping my Supersport project may arrive with me tomorrow. Just thinking slightly ahead to tinkering time.....it's yonks since I worked on that one of mine.....does piston removal entail sear removal or will pulling the trigger suffice?
    Tony correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure the 28mm cylinder size of the Challenger is the same as the Supersport (Merc, Superstar and Airsporter as well), are you getting confused with Project 'Cock which is 25mm?

    Totally agree with you about the Challenger being more graceful, sorry mate but I'm not quite sure about piston removal as I've never done it on a Supersport, I've only ever owned a couple of Lightnings and I never opened them up, I've opened a Superstar up (same procedure as a Supersport) but never took the piston out because of the Maxigrip, if you need opening up advice I can help with that.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    Quote Originally Posted by look no hands View Post
    Tony correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure the 28mm cylinder size of the Challenger is the same as the Supersport (Merc, Superstar and Airsporter as well), are you getting confused with Project 'Cock which is 25mm?

    Totally agree with you about the Challenger being more graceful, sorry mate but I'm not quite sure about piston removal as I've never done it on a Supersport, I've only ever owned a couple of Lightnings and I never opened them up, I've opened a Superstar up (same procedure as a Supersport) but never took the piston out because of the Maxigrip, if you need opening up advice I can help with that.

    Pete
    Cheers, Pete. I didn't know the piston size for sure, I was just guessing, but it surprises me that he guns you mention all share the same diameter piston. Every day's a school day!

    Stripping down won't be an issue, Pete. As mentioned earlier, I stripped that one of mine many years ago and remember that it was very easy. I even still have the tube with the cut-out to compress the spring to clear the retaining pin - it came with a spring compressor many moons ago.

    I just couldn't remember if you could remove said piston without removing the sear / trigger.

    I also did the Challenger. Not as bad as one would think, but really can't see why they went to the trouble of going down the Maxigrip rail route.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyL View Post
    Cheers, Pete. I didn't know the piston size for sure, I was just guessing, but it surprises me that he guns you mention all share the same diameter piston. Every day's a school day!

    Stripping down won't be an issue, Pete. As mentioned earlier, I stripped that one of mine many years ago and remember that it was very easy. I even still have the tube with the cut-out to compress the spring to clear the retaining pin - it came with a spring compressor many moons ago.

    I just couldn't remember if you could remove said piston without removing the sear / trigger.

    I also did the Challenger. Not as bad as one would think, but really can't see why they went to the trouble of going down the Maxigrip rail route.
    It was all the rage a little while ago to fit the Diana 28mm piston seal to Airsporters to replace the O ring heads, if BSA had used the same sort of rail that was fitted to the early HW85 which just slotted in and was held on with a screw and was also the standard 11mm size width, then I can see why, now as we all know the BSA rail width is stupid but on the Challenger a rail that butts up against the rear trigger block (or deeper well cut grooves in the cylinder) was good as it allowed the scope mounts to come back that little bit further to give better eye relief, I actually used a set of two piece reach forward mounts turned around and filled a few thou off the bottom of the reach forward section to be able to mount on the rail and overhang the trigger block and give you even more eye relief.

    You've just reminded me to find out my spring removal tool that's been hidden away in my parts tin waiting for the day that another BSA turns up.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

  14. #29
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    Red face

    I bought a .177 Airsporter mk1 that had a scope rail made, The fella that did it was a retired engineer who's garage put out fitting shop at work to shame!!

    He drilled the cylinder (5 holes) and threaded them to a 4BA thread but had mislaid the screws as he'd removed the rail, I keep meaning to get some off fleabay but keep forgetting!

    Here's another mk1 that a blacksmith must have scoped up!!

    Sellers pics..






    EDIT-It was only £65 posted so I can't complain!!



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    Quote Originally Posted by look no hands View Post
    Please stop skipping past what's been said already Alistair

    The Custom comes with a bolt NOT a pin and if you go back to line no 8 there's a link to a sales page for a Custom.

    Pete
    Oh, I like the look of that. Handsome like a race 'orse. A bolt you say? Hmm... mebbe I will look for one of these as well. Rocking-horse dung you say? Let me write to my Unobtanium dealer ...

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