Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 129

Thread: Spring gun revival (again.....)

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Formby
    Posts
    3,278
    I think you have hit the nail on the head there Pete! The older I get the more I appreciate shooting a mechanically powered rifle for some reason. It is probably something to do with times long ago when a tin of pellets, some reactive targets and a springer kept me and my mates occupied for years.
    Happy days indeed.
    Andy
    Member, the Feinwerkbau Sport appreciation Society (over 50's chapter)
    http://www.rivington-riflemen.eu/ Andy, from the North !

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Retford, Notts
    Posts
    37,287
    Quote Originally Posted by Herx77 View Post
    The resurgence of springers hmmm.
    Since the 80's when springers were king and the HW77 ruled all, there has been a gradual decline in attendences at competitions and as the characters that pushed the advancement of FT and later HFT (setting the base rules) and structures of their sport either retired or moved on to other disciplines, a small cadre maintained an active interest in springers. More I think in FT than HFT.
    Personally after years 'springing' at Markyate and FT competitions where a hot bed of talent grew and it was difficult not to be good shooting against the likes of T. Doe, Mark Commaccio, Dave Welhams(all the Welhams in fact)John Ford and Barry Mcgraw;it was difficult not to be caught up in the enthusium and competitive edge which was razor sharp. It was fun shooting at 2am in frost and in battery powered lighting.It was fun but I think it has faded a bit since. Russell is correct in that you will always have a recoiling element that cannot be removed no matter how much you subdue it but you can make it part of you when shooting and not an enemy in the firing cycle.
    We put that much practice in we adapted and adjusted to recoil and being competitive amongst us that it turned out to be not too much a problem.We were shooting active guns not emasculated items and had to an extent come to terms with springers idiosyncracies.
    Also there was throughout the country a comradarie existing where shooters knew each other and were allowed into a web site by invitation only.Rarely do I shoot springers these days due in part the stripping and relube when wet and don't do enough practice with the HW77.But it is good to score a high 50's against pcp's and highly 'tuned 'guns of the light side.
    They are always memorable to shoot and interesting to look back on the scores,most which are higher that my pcp's.
    HERX77
    Many good points made by so many posters.

    The above I absolutely love.
    THE BOINGER BASH AT QUIGLEY HOLLOW. MAKING GREAT MEMORIES SINCE 15th JUNE, 2013.
    NEXT EVENT :- May 17/18, 2025.........BOING!!

  3. #63
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Newcastle-under-Lyme
    Posts
    3,636
    Aye Herx77's post is a pleasant read.

    I really don't know what it is with me. There's some frustration lurking in there somewhere. Maybe, like Andy says, it's just remembering the fun me and my mates had as youngsters with a couple of old Webley break barrels. We would go down the pot bank tip and line up some cups and saucers and shoot at them. So compared to modern day target kill zones they were massive, but there was a skill to be learned with the reacting rifle if you wanted to keep hitting them. I suppose that possibly fuels my passion, when posting, that you don't need lots of tiny kills for it to be a shooting test and fun.

    Maybe there's also something about me that says a newcomer, in any sport, SHOULD have to learn to do something well before they start getting good results. The PCP has meant that youngsters and newcomers and those that don't really want to put in many hours of range time CAN buy a 0.177 PCP and use the HFT rock steady prone stance and pretty much straight away start knocking down plenty of targets. I get that that probably gets more people shooting the sport and sticking at it, but as I'm always saying, it has, ironically, driven courses to a point where wind estimation is probably the biggest factor of getting very good scores and actual shooting skill is an also ran.

    We can't be dinosaurs. We can't stand in the way of technical development. So the fact that PCPs mean that a newcomer can just buy one, shoot it for a short period of time and shoot it quite accurately ... that's a good thing right! Well, as I mentioned earlier when it's being used clinically to do a job like pest control then yes I think it's a very good thing. Is it great for shooting ... and Sunday morning comp shooting? Well if it means numbers are up then I suppose, yes, it has to be good.

    Are these developments always a good thing?

    As a youngster I was pretty good at table tennis. I played in the local leagues and I did well. Plain pimple bats were just about fading out and most were using more 'modern' bats that had some sponge and then pimples facing in rubber on top of the sponge. That gave a flat rubber surface that contacted the ball. The sponge greatly increased ball speed off the bat. You could then start to get different 'Tackiness' rubbers that could put great spin on the ball. The Chinese then started using very long pimple rubbers that had the smooth side fixed onto the sponge and the long pimples pointing outwards. This was called 'Grass' because the thin pimples were that long. The thin pimples absorbed the spin when receiving the ball and imparted all sorts of weird spin on the ball when releasing it. So the opponent was then receiving a ball that he couldn't control. To make things worse players would have a plain rubber on one side and the magic 'Grass' rubber on the other. They would then 'flip' the bats in their hands during rallies so the opponent had no idea which rubber had hit the ball. Rallies dropped from 20 or 30 shots to just a couple of shots. Players that had never really done all that well in the local leagues were buying these bats and starting to win lots of matches. The sport tried to negate this by ruling that bats had to be black on one side and red on the other so opponents could see which rubber had hit the ball. It basically destroyed the sport and eventually the very long pimple rubbers were banned. In more recent years the old 'Ping Pong' has made a resurgence as a sport. In Ping Pong you don't have your own bats. Two identical plain bats are provided. These are pretty much like the original bats that just have some thin pimple out rubber on the wooden blades. This means that no great amount of spin or deception can be put on the ball. So all the skill has been moved back to the players. Not only are the bats provided for the players but if one player feels the other player's bat is better than theirs then they can ask to swap bats. This makes for a very skilful game with long rallies and the player with the most skill will win.

    My main love has always been cricket. The authorities have always insisted that bats are made from simple willow and there have always been restrictions on how 'wide' ( side to side ) the bats can be. Up until quite recently ( last 15 years or so ) a batsman had to time the ball and pretty much hit it in the middle to hit it with great power. If he risked trying to hit a six and there was a fielder on the boundary then if he didn't time it well enough he would be caught as the ball wouldn't travel far enough to go for six. Bats have gone crazy in recent years. They are now pressed very lightly and they have huge curves in the blades. They also have massive edges and even bigger 'middles'. As they are pressed lightly you can have a bat that is enormous but still picks up very light and can be swung with great hand speed. So now you have players ( instigated by Twenty20 ) trying to thrash most balls. Even if they get half a bat on it the ball will fly for six. The bats have meant that far less 'skill' is required to time the ball and make the boundary. It wasn't an option to try and make all cricket grounds bigger, so the authorities have just introduced new rules to limit the thickness of the bats to try and halt this direction.

    So just a couple of examples. There will be many more and I'm sure people will mention motorsport. I used to watch the RAC rallies in the forests. I remember the huge Audi Quattro's exploding their way through the Welsh forests with the trees being lit up in the early morning darkness by the flames from the exhausts. I wasn't a rally driver but I had mates that used to rally and they always told me that the real competition is in the smaller classes where the skill of the driver is tested more than the technology of the cars.

    I will never say that people buy prizes with top end kit. The best shooters will always be at the top of the lists. The guys who put the time in practising and working at their shooting. I just think that the ease of shooting a PCP, along with the rock steady HFT prone stance, has pushed courses to a point where actual shooting ability ( body position, hold, breathing, release, follow through ) has been pushed well down the list and wind judgement, plus a tad of ranging, is most of the job. That leaves the very small percentage of shooters who have to concentrate on shooting ability ( the springer folk ), shooting targets that are on their limits and so many will either walk away from the sport all together, or will migrate to the masses that shoot 0.177 PCP. They'd sooner be an average 0.177 PCP guy who averages around 50/60 rather than have scores that bounce all over the place with their springer and those scores often don't equate to how they've shot.

    Would the Sunday morning tin chicken sports be a better test of shooting if kills were relaxed slightly, encouraging more people to give it a go with their springers, and stick with their springers, also giving a better chance for youngsters and newcomers, and more 'Shooting Skill' positions introduced for Elite shooters using 'Corpse Rifles' ( More kneelers and standers and maybe a less stable prone stance [ butt off the floor etc ])? ... I'm 100% certain they would. Would numbers drop though because most shooters don't want to have to put the time in to improve their shooting skills but want pretty much instant respectable scores? ... I'm sadly 100% certain of that also.

    Just a last note ... We often hear the old guys ( myself included ) talking about springers, usually related to the fact that they were the air rifles available when we first used them as kids. However, probably the most successful HFT National Recoil shooter has been Kyle, who is a very young man. I spoke to Kyle and asked him why he shot a springer. He said that he just liked the way that it actually gave him a nudge in his shoulder and he had to work hard to shoot it accurately. Gary, who won this year's National HFT Recoil Class is also a relatively young guy. So thankfully it's not just us dinosaurs that like to try and master the springers.
    Last edited by bozzer; 21-12-2017 at 09:05 AM.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Leeds/Cheadle
    Posts
    10,615
    First Chilly is no Spring chicken

    Second is the setting of a HFT course. I don't count a National course the same as IMHO they should be as tricky as possible so that the top shooters can be challenged. It i'm setting a course out there will be 5 targets that everyone should get, 5 that (hopefully) no-one will get and a general mix in between.
    Chairman Emley Moor F.T.C. 2023 - Misfits champ, HFT extreme champ, NEFTA hunter champ, Midlands Hunter champ, UKAHFT champ.
    https://sites.google.com/site/emleymoorftc/contact-us

  5. #65
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Newcastle-under-Lyme
    Posts
    3,636
    I was trying to be kind ... He's much bigger than me.

    I totally agree that a National course should be tougher than a club course. So people can cut their teeth at club courses and maybe never move out of that level. Those that wish to can move up to Nationals and should notice that they are tougher.

    I would word it slightly differently. I don't see the point in there being any targets that 'no one' can get. I also don't see there being any point in targets that are probably a lottery. So in some decent variable wind no one can 'guarantee' getting them. There will always be some luck but try and minimise it.

    I would say that I would have on a 30 target HFT course ... A number of targets that are well within the capability of youngsters/newcomers and non 0.177 PCP OPEN shooters. So these will be targets that I expect the top shooters to get virtually 100% of the time and they will get them if they get that shot off better than 60% ( including position/hold/breathing/release/follow through/wind/range ). These will give the lower end shooters some points on the board and some encouragement.

    There would also be a number of targets that I would hope really tested the top end 0.177 OPEN shooters. So they have to range these correctly ( within a couple of yards ) and get the wind right AND wait for the wind to be right on release ( so wait for the lull ), and do all the shooting stuff 90%+ correctly. So hard work targets even for the Elite of the 0.177 PCP OPEN group. However, these are still not beyond the capability of a springer shooter. If that springer shooter gets that shot off perfectly ( near as ) and has judged wind and range well then that target will go down. A 90%+ executed shot means that target is going down EVERY time. So it's a total test of shooting ability.

    ... and as you say ... a whole mix of targets in between those extremes around the course.

    The point I've been making is that with modern top end courses like Nationals etc ... the rock steady HFT prone and the majority use of 0.177 PCPs means that courses have been pushed such that in even a moderate amount of wind some targets aren't Quality shot = Guaranteed kill ... and that's for the PCPs ... it's even worse for the springer shooters. This is the price we have paid for a rock steady stance and 'Dead' very accurate rifles. If this was indoor shooting then we could take the range out a tad further or reduce kills even more. However we are using rifles and a stance that is capable in the right hands of half inch accuracy at the max range of 45 yards, hence the reductions in kill sizes ... but outdoors in wind, that can mean no matter how well someone can judge wind the spread will take some pellets outside the kill ... and with rifles like springers, the variation in body/rifle positions will open groups any way. So Quality shot doesn't guarantee a kill. Sometimes with a springer a near perfect shot doesn't guarantee a kill. Once you start getting a reasonable amount of wind more and more targets fall into that category. Two people aim at exactly the same point and release the shot perfectly well, at the same lull in the wind ... one goes down ... the other doesn't.

    I think the stance ( driven by the initial desire to make this a sport that is easy to get some points at an entry level ) and very accurate and easy to shoot 0.177 PCPs, have created this. Bigger kills and tougher positions, requiring more shooting skill, gets you closer to that Quality shot = Guaranteed kill. Newcomers and lower shooters ( their choice ) continue to use the easier rock steady stance until they reach a standard where they can move up, so that keeps their scores high at the beginning and keeps them coming back for more.

    Maybe it's shooting springers for all those years and seeing courses evolve that made me feel that courses had gone that way, as I started to notice that my scores started bouncing all over the place on tougher courses, despite me feeling I was still shooting the springer quite well. No matter how much extra work I put in at the range I couldn't stop that happening. Maybe it's not so easy to notice when shooting 0.177 PCPs because if you shoot well on a tough course in not too unreasonable wind then you still score highly and about where you'd expect to be. It's only on quite windy days that you see the top 0.177 PCP OPEN shooters scores start falling apart. I'm convinced that starts happening to springers at a much lower ( and more average ) wind level on tough courses. When I look at HFT scores I don't just look at the top 0.177 OPEN PCP scores on that day. I look at the springer scores and the lower end scores too. You notice that on days where the top PCP shooters have slightly lower scores ( so I presume a tough course or a bit of variable wind at play ) the springers scores ( and blokes I know can shoot ) get crushed and there are a lot of very low scores at the bottom of PCP too. Those people can't be really enjoying turning up and spending 3 hours shooting 30 pellets and only knocking a few targets down.

    T'is what it is and it's great. Just my ramblings from a springer point of view. Neil commented on StB that he was scoring consistently well with his springer so maybe I'd just reached my peak level as a springer shooter.
    Last edited by bozzer; 21-12-2017 at 10:56 AM.

  6. #66
    Blackrider's Avatar
    Blackrider is offline It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got a Spring
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Perthshire the Heart of Scotland !
    Posts
    9,743
    Great Posts there Bozzer !
    “Let us not dwell on the distance we have fallen short, let us dwell on the distance we have travelled" !

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Cambridge UK
    Posts
    7,147
    Hey ho, most enjoyable thread so I thought I would add my thoughts on HFT courses etc. The first thing to say is these are thoughts and observations, not gripes as my philosophy is to turn up and shoot what has been put out with thanks to the course setters.
    When I started HFT there is no doubt the courses were 'easier' with bigger kill zones at closer ranges. Then came the various revisions with smaller kill zones at longer ranges than before. This made good scores, for me, much harder ... I am only a mediocre shot but enjoy it. What I observed though was that courses became harder as there seemed to be a subconscious element of competition for course setters to set the hardest course permissible; hence small kills were set at the maximum range allowed, some shots required the skills of a gymnast to be able to see the kill ... getting more difficult for me as the years pass by. But, hey ho ... shoot what is set and enjoy it. I did notice a few newcomers getting low scores on their first or second shoots though and they were a tad disgruntled; never to be seen again. The reason for the changes to course design were, I believe, to separate the top shots and so avoid too many ties and shoot offs at the end of the day. I am not sure this was achieved?
    Then there are other rules ... being allowed to rest the rifle butt on the ground? I was surprised at this being allowed as, to me, it is akin to turning a prone shot into a form of bench rest. If I was the rule maker I would stop this practice; but I am not, so am happy to accept the rule. Beanbags?? Again I would not allow them for kneeling shots; I have seen shooters with bean bags that could, for all intents and purposes be sitting on a stool. But I do not make the rules so am happy to follow what is set. Maybe if rules were changed to fit my thoughts the desire to separate the top shots would be achieved?
    I stress that these are just thoughts, not gripes but I have no doubt some people will think them a whinge. As it is, I only have admiration for the 'two Petes' for all the effort they put into rule setting and organisation for HFT and happily shoot whatever is set.

    Cheers, Phil

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Leeds/Cheadle
    Posts
    10,615
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Russell View Post
    Hey ho, most enjoyable thread so I thought I would add my thoughts on HFT courses etc. The first thing to say is these are thoughts and observations, not gripes as my philosophy is to turn up and shoot what has been put out with thanks to the course setters.
    When I started HFT there is no doubt the courses were 'easier' with bigger kill zones at closer ranges. Then came the various revisions with smaller kill zones at longer ranges than before. This made good scores, for me, much harder ... I am only a mediocre shot but enjoy it. What I observed though was that courses became harder as there seemed to be a subconscious element of competition for course setters to set the hardest course permissible; hence small kills were set at the maximum range allowed, some shots required the skills of a gymnast to be able to see the kill ... getting more difficult for me as the years pass by. But, hey ho ... shoot what is set and enjoy it. I did notice a few newcomers getting low scores on their first or second shoots though and they were a tad disgruntled; never to be seen again. The reason for the changes to course design were, I believe, to separate the top shots and so avoid too many ties and shoot offs at the end of the day. I am not sure this was achieved?
    Then there are other rules ... being allowed to rest the rifle butt on the ground? I was surprised at this being allowed as, to me, it is akin to turning a prone shot into a form of bench rest. If I was the rule maker I would stop this practice; but I am not, so am happy to accept the rule. Beanbags?? Again I would not allow them for kneeling shots; I have seen shooters with bean bags that could, for all intents and purposes be sitting on a stool. But I do not make the rules so am happy to follow what is set. Maybe if rules were changed to fit my thoughts the desire to separate the top shots would be achieved?
    I stress that these are just thoughts, not gripes but I have no doubt some people will think them a whinge. As it is, I only have admiration for the 'two Petes' for all the effort they put into rule setting and organisation for HFT and happily shoot whatever is set.

    Cheers, Phil
    Good post Phil and spot on. the rules/course/kit and shooting skills have all increased from when i first started.

    Andy, apologies for the thread diversion.
    Chairman Emley Moor F.T.C. 2023 - Misfits champ, HFT extreme champ, NEFTA hunter champ, Midlands Hunter champ, UKAHFT champ.
    https://sites.google.com/site/emleymoorftc/contact-us

  9. #69
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Newcastle-under-Lyme
    Posts
    3,636
    Phil

    I have also always said that those that put the work in get to make the decisions ... and Amen to that.

    These aren't criticisms ... just friendly chat on an internet site. The sport started as an option for folk with basic kit to have a go at tin chicken shooting on a Sunday morning, as an option to FT if they didn't want to sit to shoot and spend decent money on FT scopes. It did that. It's become a challenge for the organisers to try and balance testing the very best with top end PCPs and still making it accessible, and enjoyable for youngsters and low end shooters. It's very difficult to try and do that and have the same courses and rules for everyone. It's doing great as it is. The greatest majority that shoot it are happy and will say that there's no need to change a thing. If people want to make it tough for themselves by shooting a springer then that's up to them.

    I've put courses out and spent a couple of days in all weathers prior to that weekend's shoot doing so. So, as you say, it will always be a case of turning up and being grateful for those that put the work in to make it happen, and shoot what's been provided for you.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Crimson Rouge one, Parked in Braintree
    Posts
    2,794
    I have been following this thread with a lot of interest and there has been many great points, I shall ignore the comments from the old codger (ChrisC) as in his advancing years he gets a bit confused now and then (No spring chicken) :-)

    What Bozzer says is correct, on a level ground, my TX200hc will shoot 10 pellets as well as my Steyr could, I can often shoot a 10 shot group of about 8mm at 45 yards and my Steyr could only ever beat this by a fraction. At 30 yards and under, there is no difference and in wind (Measured with an anomomiter) the Tx is better then the Steyr.

    On a basic club course, i would expect to be a few points infront or a few points behind my mate Alex Larkin, me an Alex have always been at the same level and this hs not changed sinced I moved to a springer. However, when it comes to National UKAHFT spec courses where the 25mm are at 40 yards and the kneelers and standers are at maximum, then the gap between me and Alex widens. Also, there seems to be a growing trend to force people up the pegs and also the wrong side of the peg and for a PCP, this is not an issue, but for a boinger, this is almost an impossible shot.

    There is no doubt that on a basic course the springers can compete, but when the course are tough and long, then it's much harder.

    That being said, I never managed to clear a course until I started to shoot spring, so, what does this tell me? When I shot PCP, i got lazy, I would go to a target and expect to kill it and when I did not treat the target with respect, I often missed. With a boinger, you have to think about every shot, so, for me, shooting a spring is the best thing.

    Hope this helps.

    Gary
    HFT Team England 2012 - 2013
    Incompetent writer for Airgunner
    UKAHFT, World and SiHFT Recoiling champ 2017

  11. #71
    Barryg's Avatar
    Barryg is offline Registered ̶D̶i̶a̶n̶a̶ User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nr. YEOVIL
    Posts
    5,156
    Quote Originally Posted by scutter View Post
    I have been following this thread with a lot of interest and there has been many great points, I shall ignore the comments from the old codger (ChrisC) as in his advancing years he gets a bit confused now and then (No spring chicken) :-)

    What Bozzer says is correct, on a level ground, my TX200hc will shoot 10 pellets as well as my Steyr could, I can often shoot a 10 shot group of about 8mm at 45 yards and my Steyr could only ever beat this by a fraction. At 30 yards and under, there is no difference and in wind (Measured with an anomomiter) the Tx is better then the Steyr.

    On a basic club course, i would expect to be a few points infront or a few points behind my mate Alex Larkin, me an Alex have always been at the same level and this hs not changed sinced I moved to a springer. However, when it comes to National UKAHFT spec courses where the 25mm are at 40 yards and the kneelers and standers are at maximum, then the gap between me and Alex widens. Also, there seems to be a growing trend to force people up the pegs and also the wrong side of the peg and for a PCP, this is not an issue, but for a boinger, this is almost an impossible shot.

    There is no doubt that on a basic course the springers can compete, but when the course are tough and long, then it's much harder.

    That being said, I never managed to clear a course until I started to shoot spring, so, what does this tell me? When I shot PCP, i got lazy, I would go to a target and expect to kill it and when I did not treat the target with respect, I often missed. With a boinger, you have to think about every shot, so, for me, shooting a spring is the best thing.

    Hope this helps.

    Gary
    Your post is music to a springer shooter's ears

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Formby
    Posts
    3,278
    I am glad that this thread has developed into a discussion regarding the difficulties of springer shooting at today's difficult course layouts. I suppose the bottom line is that organisers have allowed for the provision of a springer category and that of course all using a boinger are in the same boat.
    The problem is that the boat has developed a few leaks. Course setters do a great job of fooling the unwary into a bad shot, even when using a "dead" gun. I would like to see some of the top shoots using boingers for a year and to then see if the rules changed!
    Anyway, got to go and zero the new 97!
    Bye for now folks,
    Andy
    Member, the Feinwerkbau Sport appreciation Society (over 50's chapter)
    http://www.rivington-riflemen.eu/ Andy, from the North !

  13. #73
    Herx77 is offline "Instruments of the light"
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Body boarding centre of Hertfordshire
    Posts
    1,666
    Just a thought, "to play devils advocate" regarding kill (target) sizes; and in the past targets being bigger that entailed better scores. EG, the shooting ability was inferier to todays shooters. Using Springers.
    I would propose that the skill level was as good as (and in my experience with shooters through the 80's and 90's) overall better.
    Sizes... How do you shoot to achieve a range card?or what are your expectations!
    Do you set out to form a group of 1inch,2inch or more finding the centre of the group to make it the reference at that paticular distance!
    At Markyate in the 80's( I know going back like a Tardis) and what I do today with springers and pcp's, is pick out a pellet mark and shoot to hit or clover leaf it from marks 8 to 55 yds. We did that as did D. Welham and T. Doe etc.
    Clover leafing at 50/55yds was common and fun.
    NOW if you can shoot pellet marks during range carding why would it be difficult hitting larger targets .After all a 15mm or 35mm kill is a lot bigger than a pellet splash.(Not much changes)
    So why the difficulty and frightening aspec of a set course? you just proved you can shoot smaller items. Is it a skill thing?
    One gun is easier to shoot and be comfortable with it,and another needs constant adjustments but is accurate but needs more applied skill.
    That is shooting a 'live' springer.
    HERX77 .
    Last edited by Herx77; 12-02-2018 at 09:02 PM.
    Fighter against the "Dark Arts" A stranger in an even stranger land.
    GC2+Leupold 14.4-34x45
    AA400 fac receiver+sidewinder 8.5-34x52
    Weihrauch HW77k fiddled with and doing what it wants to +Zeiss 3-9x36.
    Weihrauch HW90k
    Weihrauch HW97k learning from above,now sporting a Maccarri 77/97 target stock..+Bushnell 3200.Go on shoot one you know you want to
    Daystate mk3 RT Delux + bushnell 4200 8-24x 40Does what it should again & again.
    Fwb 124 + Optima was good is good!
    Webley Vulcan.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    warrington
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Herx77 View Post
    Just a thought, "to play devils advocate" regarding kill (target) sizes; and in the past targets being bigger that entailed better scores. EG, the shooting ability was inferier to todays shooters. Using Springers.
    I would propose that the skill level was as good as (and in my experience with shooters through the 80's and 90's) overall better.
    Sizes... How do you shoot to achieve a range card?or what are your expectations!
    Do you set out to form a group of 1inch,2inch or more finding the centre of the group to make it the reference at that paticular distance!
    At Markyate in the 80's( I know going back like a Tardis) and what I do today with springers and pcp's, is pick out a pellet mark and shoot to hit or clover leaf it from marks 8 to 55 yds. We did that as did D. Welham and T. Doe etc.
    Clover leafing at 50/55yds was common and fun.
    NOW if you can shoot pellet marks during range carding why would it be difficult hitting smmaller targets .After all a 15mm or 35mm kill is a lot bigger than a pellet splash.(Not much changes)
    So why the difficulty and frightening of a set course? you just proved you can shoot smaller items. Is it a skill thing?
    One is easier to shoot and be comfortable with it,and another needs constant adjustments but is accurate but needs more applied skill.
    That is shooting a 'live' springer.
    HERX77 .
    Yes that is understandable herx77 my feelings too.IMHO its all about acheiving your personal best with the equipment you have. dont expect pcp scores or be disheartened when springing,the pleasure is improving by honing your skills

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Bishops Stortford
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by 22pelletpete View Post
    Yes that is understandable herx77 my feelings too.IMHO its all about acheiving your personal best with the equipment you have. dont expect pcp scores or be disheartened when springing,the pleasure is improving by honing your skills
    Wahoo! I shot with Herx77 and Melanie last weekend at Lea Valley and finally pushed my Lea Valley PB with a PCP up to my Lea Valley recoiling PB!!!!!!
    All the best,
    Neil Wakelin
    .22 Winner 2014 World HFT Championships (S400)
    Recoiling Winner 2017 World HFT Campionships (HW97k)
    HFT England team 2018, 2019, 2020 (Rhino enhanced HFT500)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •