Imho with tuning you come up against a "law of diminishing return"
I have fired rifles that are far more highly tuned than my short stroked guns. They feel good but not an extra £200 good (with a couple of exceptions)
Hi Chris,
I spent ages typing out a reply to your PM and then your inbox was full when I tried to send it to you, so I didn't want to waste what I had written, anyway here's my reply.
I'd say yes, Wonky does a complete rebuild of the internals, I can't say how well it shoots now as I went all anti Weihrauch shortly after having it done (it's an age and "don't mention the war" sort of thing) and sold it on, it certainly made a hell of a difference from what it was like before (I swapped a rifle for the 95 and it came with a V-mach kit in it), the thing is for me is I don't like V-mach kits either as I feel they are overpriced and the kit I had for my first Prosport made it harder to cock and kept going over the legal limit, even after several spring exchanges with Steve, I ended up putting a SFS spring in and had no problems after that but I do have to admit that my 95 did shoot pretty nice with the V-mach kit in it but comparing it to the Chinese XS20 I had before it, then there was no contest really.
Now here's the thing, a Wonky tune was £160 (about 2 years ago) plus postage there and back (another £40-50), fair enough the tune will have the transfer port sorted out and it will be short stroked and a special piston seal used blah blah blah, the tune made a lot of difference but I wouldn't say it was streets ahead but I didn't run it in properly so it could have only got better and then I'd probably have been blown away, people often ask about tuning and at the end of the day it all depends on what you like from the rifle, if yours is shooting well, with top notch accuracy and little recoil and no annoying twang, then either leave it as is or I'd recommend putting a Tinbum short stroke head in it and getting rid of any heavy top hat or washers in the piston (if it has any of those fitted) and just putting a Delrin top hat in with slip washers but we also don't know what else the Airgun Dr who tuned yours also done or did he just drop the kit in and that was it?
At the end of the day, do you think spending £200 on the gun will make it any better than it already is, yes we all want perfection but if the pellets are going where you want them to go, then that's all that matters, you could spend £200 on a decent stock that would improve your shooting and enjoyment ten fold.
I'd ask some of the HW nutters like TonyL etc and they will help you out more than I can really as I'm just a lowly BSA lover, but I'm sure they will be along soon and chime up about what to do.
Cheers
Pete
Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in
Imho with tuning you come up against a "law of diminishing return"
I have fired rifles that are far more highly tuned than my short stroked guns. They feel good but not an extra £200 good (with a couple of exceptions)
Pete
I travel alone
Very good and promising thread. i agree diminishing returns indeed. Get youselves a tinbum kit and get stuck in. Now, its a matter of pride that i tune my own springers. Its really rather simple. considering the result that you can get yourself very easily, is it worth up to a couple of hundred pounds. to get a totaly silent cocking stroke. Having spent this kind of money on a tune i supposed people are in the mood to enthuse about the result.
The main reason I now do all my own 'tuning' (well alright just fettling and tidying up really) is that I once paid someone to sort my Lightning out for me. At that point I had never opened up a spring rifle.
Got it back and after a week or two still wasn't happy. Followed some online instructions and opened it up, and it was pretty clear that it was the first time the gun had been disassembled. Meaning that this person had taken my money for nothing.
For similar reasons I won't send kit off to be modified if I can help it, after Nick from Magic 9 disappeared off the face of the earth with my 586 sight assembly.
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The short of it is, if I had a bog standard out of the box 95 that had a twang on shooting and was harsh and was a bit graunchy on cocking, then sending it off to Wonky and having his wonder tune WOULD blow your mind when you received it back and put a load of pellets through it but considering mine had had some tinkering done and a good tuners kit fitted and had been run in, then the difference wasn't overly noticeable at first, if I could have compared two rifles side by side, one Wonky tuned and one V-mach kitted then you'd probably tell the difference, when it was V-mach kitted it was smooth and twang free but it had a strange "Ting" on cocking (probably the piston rod touching the metal piston guide) and there was a tuning fork type of resonance upon firing which could be cured with a Delrin spring guide, to be honest it was perfectly usable but the "Ting" and resonance would have eventually got the better of me and would have had to had been sorted.
Pete
Last edited by look no hands; 22-01-2018 at 06:03 PM.
Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in
I have a .177 95k that was short stroked by Dave Price (WW). It was done in 2015 and is the only rifle I wouldn’t ever part with, super accurate with a very fast firing cycle.
It had originally been bought by me from SFS with a stage 1 tune but within 6 months began to creep over 12 Fpe. Dave transformed it and it is a joy to shoot. Nowhere near £200 iirc.
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I spent over £400 on a vmach tune/shims and the rest on muy old fac 80 and it was horrid to shoot. It shot better before I sent it - never again.
Tuned my last couple of springers and got my own guides made, they shoot spot on.
I would keep your money and have ago yourself if able, you could be surprised with the results
Steve
I own a few Venoms and Steve of V-Mach recently refreshed two of them - my reduced cylinder Bullpupped '80 and '77 Vantage.
And I have sampled a few of Dave's (WonkyDonky).
All sublime, as are the many expertly fettled (in some cases extensively re-engineered) ones by Mick (T20), NickG and Jon Budd.
For many, as in the OP, a simple fettle and fitting of correctiy fitting guides and caring relube is sufficient to rid twang and bestow a satisfactory level of refinement for most of us. After that it's a case of spending time getting to know your trusty Boinger.
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NEXT EVENT :- May 17/18, 2025.........BOING!!
And, Pete, there's nothing remotely "lowly" about being a BSA fan.
I owned many over the years which all gave great satisfaction at the time.
I haven't owned one for years until the freebie little Supersport came into my life a couple of weeks ago. Much of what I remembered from years ago were the horrid Meteor pistons formed from sheet. But this Supersport really surprised me. It's obviously had a hard-ish life, but the cylinder and piston are perfect (the piston being VERY impressive, actually) and the much feared wobbly breech isn't there. Some bits maybe a little "flaky" like the cocking linkage, although I'd guess that that is a non-issue if not using an overly strong spring.
And I have shot a few Beesas which impressed at the various Bash events.
I could quite easily become a BSA fan all over again.
Can't wait to get this one built up!
Last edited by TonyL; 23-01-2018 at 07:11 AM. Reason: "Like" into "life"!
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NEXT EVENT :- May 17/18, 2025.........BOING!!
yeah, there is a strong law of diminishing returns...
I think my advice would be to start off with something basic / cheap, and you may find that is all you need. Job done. If you want more, you will at least then be more educated in what exactly you are looking for having sorted out the basics (i.e. properly fitting spring guides / piston sleave / seal / lube) first, and you will know if the gun has the inherant accuracy to be worth the effort.. you can then go onto whatever floats your boat (e.g. need it softer, or faster, or less hold sensitive, or quieter to cock, or easier to cock ) - with a specific goal in mind, which will dictate your selection of tuner / kit.
Ignoring re-engineering projects, of which I've obviously done a few, I have to say a lot of my springers have still just got a basic respring / tighter guides / plastic piston sleave and are really quite nice, thank you. Even when a resleave or something else involving a lot of machining costs only my time, not £200+, I still won't just do it for no reason... if a gun shoots nice with a basic tune then job done
HTH - JB
PS Pete, the best BSAs are pre-war, and I guess the early airsporters are OK too
Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.
Excellent post, Maestro.
And that little Meteor of yours isn't exactly shabby, is it?
THE BOINGER BASH AT QUIGLEY HOLLOW. MAKING GREAT MEMORIES SINCE 15th JUNE, 2013.
NEXT EVENT :- May 17/18, 2025.........BOING!!
I agree with the law of diminishing returns but what Wonky does with a 95 (that ive shot) is amazing, the same goes for the tx200’s that he tunes..perfection i wouldnt ask for more, fast cycle low recoil.. easy follow through.
To be honest Tone, I do feel that BSA's are looked down on nowadays, which to be honest I can understand as I/we feel like we've been let down by BSA in recent years for producing such utter crap that shows the prestigious BSA name up, if it wasn't for Air Arms doing such a good job, we'd be the laughing stock of Europe regarding springer production (even the Turks can do a better job than BSA) and I can see why people buy HW's instead (but it pains me to say that).
Pete
Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in
I know where you're coming from and feel the same, Pete. With all that rich history and pedigree, it's such a shame.
Just one high-end springer, even if based on an older design but brought bang up to date, would do the trick, methinks.
By the way (and sorry to ramble off at a tangent), I was having a quick look on the BSA site a few days ago. The scope ramp fitted to the new Supersport and Lightnings appears to now be a Gamo (unsurprisingly) type bolt-on affair? Correct?
THE BOINGER BASH AT QUIGLEY HOLLOW. MAKING GREAT MEMORIES SINCE 15th JUNE, 2013.
NEXT EVENT :- May 17/18, 2025.........BOING!!