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Thread: Suggestions for "practical" Co2 pistol

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benelli B76 View Post
    Practical pistol good fun, used to do it in South Africa with .45 and 9 mil. Best fun is "house clearing" if you set up a scenario, especially with "innocents" involved. For airgun obviously cant use steel bb because of ricochets, but lead bb and pellet OK. If you want to beat everyone else for speed and accuracy you can use the MP651K pistol which shoots pellets and lead bb's, single or double action. People who have never had one of these run them down, but once you have used them you realise how good they are. Just buy the standard pistol without all the rifle gubbins, and they are cheap. See pic..

    Baz

    http://imgur.com/a/B5FCO
    I have tried one of these and was also impressed. Spares are very hard to come by (like many Baikals). I have an option on one.....when the missing parts can me found
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  2. #32
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    Looks like a decent S&W 586-6 in sales at the moment. These are very good, reliable and accurate....if you like revolvers.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimstraight View Post
    Looks like a decent S&W 586-6 in sales at the moment. These are very good, reliable and accurate....if you like revolvers.
    The best Umarex pellet replica IMO. They are all revolvers after all, but at least the S+W isn't trying to be something it isn't.
    Most accurate, best sights, best trigger, best build, most shots, and most reliable.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    The best Umarex pellet replica IMO. They are all revolvers after all, but at least the S+W isn't trying to be something it isn't.
    Most accurate, best sights, best trigger, best build, most shots, and most reliable.
    I agree, and the one for sale is the more desirable original gloss finish and from a long term bbs member (I have no connection with the sale).
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    The best Umarex pellet replica IMO. They are all revolvers after all, but at least the S+W isn't trying to be something it isn't.
    Most accurate, best sights, best trigger, best build, most shots, and most reliable.
    I agree. But the trigger, on DA, is sometimes annoying.

    A real S&W, after the slack is taken up, gives a smooth pressure at a constant pull weight, this unlocks the cylinder, starts rotating it and lifting the hammer, keeps doing that, locks the cylinder, lifts the hammer a bit more, and then releases it, seamlessly. At constant pressure.

    The older real Colt DA, by contrast, is different. It "stacks" - gets slowly heavier (doing all that stuff above) and then releases the hammer to fire. With experience, one can pull through quickly to the end of the "stack" and then (fractions of a second later) allow the piece to settle on aim before adding a tiny bit of pressure to fire. But you can not use that technique as quickly and accurately as the S&W without that small pause.

    The real S&W is better for very fast DA work. The real Colt is inferior, but, with practice, a user can feel when it is about to fire, and pause there for a micro-second before pulling through to fire, with good results. At least on a range.

    The Umarex S&W trigger is smooth, raising the hammer while unlocking and rotating the cylinder, but near the end of the pull it often needs a slight additional pressure to finally rotate and lock the cylinder, which can disturb the aim, before immediately getting slightly lighter and releasing the hammer. This is impossible to manage with complete smoothness and therefore accuracy. Not all of them do this, or if they do, they do it to different degrees. But the inherent timing issues are palpable.

    But, for emphasis, the Umarex S&W remains the best of the Umarex pellet guns for accuracy, and for fast accuracy. It is closely run by the CP88 (and to some extent the 92) in both categories in DA, and by most Umarex pistols in slow-fire accuracy (though it still edges them, as a result of better sights, balance, etc - but don't discount a CP99 in single-action, despite its small size and poor sights). The Desert Eagle, with good trigger control by the user, beats it in the "high speed, moderate accuracy" stakes, as it can fire about 50% faster, but with lower ultimate accuracy and much more noise - and it is very gas inefficient.

  6. #36
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    I'd agree with all the above, except perhaps with your views on the Desert Eagle trigger. By way of contrast I felt it to be graunchy and physically uncomfortable to shoot, even in SA. Its general construction is quite different from the rest. If it had been in the same vein as the 92FS, CP88 et al, it could really have been a contender, rather than a slightly obscure also-ran.
    Still bloody good fun though

    The Umarex S+W's trigger is much improved after a basic fettle and decent lubrication throughout. But it does have the flaws you describe. Interesting to know how it compares to the 'real' version too.

    One thing doesn't get mentioned enough: Long term, it's well worth picking up a spare indexing pawl or two. Same goes for all the Umarexes that use the smaller 8 shot mag too. The indexing pawls and the magazines (less so with the S+W mags) are made of fairly soft alloy and see a lot of action. If the mag jams and the trigger is pulled too hard, it can ruin both components in short order.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    Out of curiosity what's the name of the Camden range?
    I did some IPAS at East Barnet Shooting Club, not sure if they still do it there though.
    Hi eyebull - apologies for the very late reply, I've not been here for a while! The Camden range is called 'Alpha Guns London' and is on Camden High Street, located in a downstairs basement. I went in there to check it out, the venue is quite small, the shop sells two-tone airsoft guns and has an all-enclosed range. Their website is here: http://alphaguns.london/epages/5eaa6...ath=Categories although it doesn't show very much! Cheers
    "You make contact with your customer. Understand their needs. And then flog them something they could well do without.” - Arthur Daley

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    Sadly while the Umarex 1911 (pellet) looks much like a 1911 in pictures, it doesn't really shoot like one. It feels quite 'fat' in the hand and the trigger is an odd two-part affair. So I'd try before you buy if possible. It's probably the least accurate of their replicas.

    Yes 4.5mm BB is a bit useless if you want to take it places. Nothing wrong with their accuracy at IPAS and IPSC ranges however.
    TBH you're much better served in the airsoft world though - massive variety of models that have been around for years, lots of people shooting them under rough conditions so plenty of feedback if it doesn't stand up. A Tanfoglio Witness 1911 despite being a very faithful replica doesn't bear any comparison to a TM 1911 for reliability or aftermarket support - try getting 7 or 8 mags for a Witness!

    It's a shame that IPAS and IPSC ended up being somewhat segregated when it came to guns. As niche sports I felt they could both have benefited with a wider variety of pistols in use. There were times in IPAS when a true semi-auto would have been blisteringly fast, and times in IPSC when the accuracy of a pellet shooter wold have made all the difference.
    Hi eyebull, again thank you for your very useful input! I have been very busy the last month or so educating myself and I've decided to go down the airsoft route - as you say, way more application and availability, plus the airsoft 1911 is closer to the real thing. I have a Marui MEU and a ton of Guarder upgrade parts for a project I'll be doing with a Springfield Armory TRP kit, where 'real steel' parts will also be used to add to the authenticity (barrel bushing/trigger/recoil plug/grips). TM are a very high quality Japanese manufacturer of airsoft guns so I'm glad I took the time to learn about this properly, and get the right stuff.

    Shame the IPAS/IPSC sport has become segregated, I do hope to have a go at this sport at some stage.
    "You make contact with your customer. Understand their needs. And then flog them something they could well do without.” - Arthur Daley

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barison82 View Post
    Hi eyebull - apologies for the very late reply, I've not been here for a while! The Camden range is called 'Alpha Guns London' and is on Camden High Street, located in a downstairs basement. I went in there to check it out, the venue is quite small, the shop sells two-tone airsoft guns and has an all-enclosed range. Their website is here: http://alphaguns.london/epages/5eaa6...ath=Categories although it doesn't show very much! Cheers
    Thanks for the link, and do keep us posted on your racegun project
    Good deals with these members

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