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Thread: HFT optic advice needed

  1. #16
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    Whhhhhoooaaaa

    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    But I do chair the regional association which does, hence it's useful to know which club is giving out that advice.
    You chair an association.....https://youtu.be/gXN1yxax448

    ..."My son," said the Norman Baron...."The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite. But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right"...

  2. #17
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    On my HW97 I use the MTC Optisan EVX 10x44 Side Focus half mildot scope, which is the new version of the MTC Viper 10x44, a very popular scope for HFT.

    It has good glass and the half midot reticule has some very useful windage markings. £79 off:
    http://www.uttings.co.uk/p122412-mtc.../#.Wr63otTwbIU

    A few people I shoot with use the Hawke Vantage 3-12x44 Side Focus half mildot and do very well with it, but as people have said it depends what suits your eye.
    http://www.uttings.co.uk/p121302-haw.../#.Wr6489TwbIU

    for the extra £30 the MTC Optisan has better quality glass.

    Scopes with side focus cost more but are supposed to suffer less with parallax error.

    You've got a good rifle so try to get the best scope you can.


    Enjoy!


    Matt.

  3. #18
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    [QUOTE=cooper_dan;7461580]I've just had a look and can't find any either. Wonder why there's none around

    Just found one in a gunsmiths stock - should be here next week !
    Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptdunk View Post

    Scopes with side focus cost more but are supposed to suffer less with parallax error.

    Matt.
    Hey Matt,

    Would you be able to explain this statement?
    I never heard of this, and I wonder why it would be so..
    personally, I use an old Hawke Frontier 3-9x40 non AO, reparallaxed to 27 y.
    I found the AO 40 mm objective Hawkes dont fit in low Sportsmatch mounts, and I prefer mounting the scope as low as possible.

    Oscar
    HW 97 K .177 16 J - HW 99 S .22 16 J - HW 77 K .22 16 J - HW 80 K .22 16 J - HW 98 .177 16 J - Air Arms Pro Elite .177 23 J - Air Arms TX200 mkII .177 16 J - Air Arms TX200 mkII .22 16 J

  5. #20
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    Bob,

    Side, rear, & objective parallax adjustments work equally well in correcting parallax.

    The problem, is that when you adjust the parallax, inevitably, the point of impact will also change

    This shift occurs in both fixed & variable mag. 'scopes.

    In the very best of scopes, this shift has been virtually eliminated.

    There has been some debate about which type of adjustment (side, rear, or objective) causes the least shift - the answer is none of them - it all depends on the quality of manufacture.

    Have fun & a good Easter

    Best regards

    Russ

  6. #21
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    [QUOTE=zooma;7471580]
    Quote Originally Posted by cooper_dan View Post
    I've just had a look and can't find any either. Wonder why there's none around

    Just found one in a gunsmiths stock - should be here next week !
    Actually, I see the one that I have found is marked AO and IR, so although it is the 40mm size it also has IR, will this degrade the optical clarity for normal daylight use?

    “Jack of all trades, master of none”?
    Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  7. #22
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    Bob,

    No - when the IR is turned off, the reticule appears as normal (black).

    The only time I have used the IR on my Hawke Sidewinder 10x42 was when I was testing the IR - since then I have left it off.

    Have fun & a good Easter

    Best regards

    Russ

  8. #23
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    The IR is normaly adjustable in brightness but remember if its switched on at the start of a HFT comp, its got to stay on til the end, nowt can be touched once you start. Most HFTers don't use IR they just kep it switched off.
    Hawke Panoramas 3-9 x40 or 3-12 x 40 in mil dot are a good choice for springers. Use the arrester stud on the mounts and it sound.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhatMan View Post
    Bob,

    Side, rear, & objective parallax adjustments work equally well in correcting parallax.

    The problem, is that when you adjust the parallax, inevitably, the point of impact will also change

    This shift occurs in both fixed & variable mag. 'scopes.

    In the very best of scopes, this shift has been virtually eliminated.

    There has been some debate about which type of adjustment (side, rear, or objective) causes the least shift - the answer is none of them - it all depends on the quality of manufacture.

    Have fun & a good Easter

    Best regards

    Russ
    Actually this was not my question Russ- but I found the answer very informative and it left me wondering - just how much do you have to spend to get optics good enough to reduce or even eliminate the POI shift after making a parallel adjustment.

    Have you actually seen any that can do this (without needing a second mortgage)?

    Hope you are enjoying this lovely balmy Easter weather
    Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper_dan View Post
    The best thing you could do is go along to the in and ask to have a look through as many scopes as you can. There will be a lot of reticle options and some glass will suit your eyes better than others.
    Good advice.
    Founder & ex secretary of Rivington Riflemen.
    www.rivington-riflemen.uk

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    Actually this was not my question Russ- but I found the answer very informative and it left me wondering - just how much do you have to spend to get optics good enough to reduce or even eliminate the POI shift after making a parallel adjustment.

    Have you actually seen any that can do this (without needing a second mortgage)?

    Hope you are enjoying this lovely balmy Easter weather
    There's two issues at hand.

    Firstly that parallax correction on some scopes can cause the POI to move even from one parallax corrected range to another parallax corrected range. This I would consider being a fault on any scope irrespective of cost.

    The second is that if you haven't corrected the parallax at the range you shoot at then you cannot assume the movement is down to the scope. It may be you're seeing your POI from a viewpoint with error. That's what parallax adjustment allows for, correcting that error. If you haven't corrected then you'll be shooting with error, so it's entirely possible that when you correct it at that range, or move to another range that is corrected, you'll see a movement of POI.

    Without correcting POI, any conclusions about where a shot lays within the range of error is completely baseless. That means wind, cant, pellet performance, drop etc.

  12. #27
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    Truce...

    Rob - Genuine comment I understand what you say above, makes sense for a scope being adjusted ....but does this POI movement matter in a scope being use for HFT ?

    If there is an inherent fault/weakness in the mechanics of a budget scope then so long as that scope holds that error (in relation to parallax adjustment and POI) then does it matter if the scope is never adjusted?

    For HFT the ultimate settings are established for the user then left well alone, you want them to stay "just so"......unlike FT.

    In HFT the parallax point that suits the shooter is set then the turrets adjusted to the chosen zero. If at some point tha parallax is changed the turrets may need adjusting...no big thing.

    If I had a top end scope and adjusting parallax moved the POI I would have something to say, at the more budget end of the spectrum it may be a given.

    I recently returned a very expensive Nightforce that moved a lot on adjusting the parllax even though it was intended for HFT so was not going to be adjusted....I just expected it to be of a standard such that it didn't move.

    P.S. the dying swan comment made me chuckle...
    ..."My son," said the Norman Baron...."The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite. But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right"...

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodolo View Post
    Hey Matt,

    Would you be able to explain this statement?
    I never heard of this, and I wonder why it would be so..
    personally, I use an old Hawke Frontier 3-9x40 non AO, reparallaxed to 27 y.
    I found the AO 40 mm objective Hawkes dont fit in low Sportsmatch mounts, and I prefer mounting the scope as low as possible.

    Oscar
    Hi,
    I understood that Side focus makes it so you don’t have to be strictly consistent with cheek weld method, whereas AO focus scopes are more prone to parallax error (or crosshairs ‘swiming’ ) due to head position and the eye being slightly misaligned with the scope, although I could be wrong.

    I too like to mount my scope low, and with SF my scope has 1mm of clearance, and my holdover range between 8-45yds is 2.5 mildots.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lol Moore View Post
    Rob - Genuine comment I understand what you say above, makes sense for a scope being adjusted ....but does this POI movement matter in a scope being use for HFT ?

    If there is an inherent fault/weakness in the mechanics of a budget scope then so long as that scope holds that error (in relation to parallax adjustment and POI) then does it matter if the scope is never adjusted?

    For HFT the ultimate settings are established for the user then left well alone, you want them to stay "just so"......unlike FT.

    In HFT the parallax point that suits the shooter is set then the turrets adjusted to the chosen zero. If at some point tha parallax is changed the turrets may need adjusting...no big thing.

    If I had a top end scope and adjusting parallax moved the POI I would have something to say, at the more budget end of the spectrum it may be a given.

    I recently returned a very expensive Nightforce that moved a lot on adjusting the parllax even though it was intended for HFT so was not going to be adjusted....I just expected it to be of a standard such that it didn't move.

    P.S. the dying swan comment made me chuckle...
    Correct. It's probably only important if you want to move from say a 25 yd zero to a 30 yd zero and expect all your aim points to stay as they were... they just might not.

    Glad it amused

    I've used scopes that cost $100 to £3000 and to be honest I'd say there was no correlation in price vs faults. All off the shelf items have performed. I'd consider any scope purchased from a traditional source to perform likewise. But over the year's I have come across scopes that displayed faults across the entire price range, luckily not mine.

    I guess no make is immune, it's how it's handled that's probably most important as that directly affects the user. And the amount of scopes means that it might be more common with one make. I was speaking to the head of one scope manufacturer last week who said their biggest problem is keeping the QC inline with demand.

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