Why not gas-rams

[Geezer]

Early couple of years Theoben was getting its system together. The gasram worked but they were buying Webley barrels. Think their triggers were Webley inspired too. All in they were expensive.
Once they got the barrel sorted from Germany and the rest put together then they were glorious

Good post. Only didn't quote the whole thing for brevity.

The Sirocco came out in 1982. The German barrels turned up in mid-84. Anschutz in .177" and .22". Diana (M&G) for the .20". For a while you could get special unchoked barrels to use with Prometheus pellets (if you had fallen for the hype - I did, briefly; the enthusiasm lasted for about 50 shots, happily I didn't buy a new rifle especially to shoot them through).

I would rather like a very early Sirocco, particularly the 1982 first model (failing that, the perfected late 1984 Anschutz-barrelled one). But I cannot recall seeing any of the former up for sale in the last ten years, and only one or two of the latter.

I suspect the early Sirocco sold quite slowly. As I said earlier, it was the most expensive factory sporter you could buy, and a lot of people weren't exactly lush with cash in the early Thatcher years.

[airgun]

Many thanks for your reply

[LESS THAN FORTUITOUS KENNETH]

I have an evo he. I have dropped it to 10.6 fpe and it does shoot nicer at that power. Build quality is good. Accuracy is good. However, that trigger is pants. I just cant get on with it, and for that reason alone, it would be one of the first of my guns to go.

[Steyr]

Because all springers are awfull and gas ram takes it several steps in the wrong direction combined with a sackfull of hype and some of the crappest triggers you could widlsh to find on anybairgun manufacturers range even though I loved my Rapid 17.
Gas rams are truly awful in every single way.
The4e is a reason they never got taken up as a go to solution. Its because they suck even more 5han Monica Lewinski

[smallman28]

My friend tried to get one of the Theoben rams to go into his Webley Omega when they did them as an after market kit.
Dragged on for a long time with lots of chasing after Theoben with one excuse after another for why they hadn't sent one out, in the end he just got his money back.
That was his/mine experience of gas rams

[Rapidnick]

For me they are excellent but overpriced rifles. I personally don't find the triggers a problem but they certainly aren't great. I particularly like the firing cycle and, along with most other shooters, the quality of build.
However the one rammer that isn't overpriced is the magnificent FAC Eliminator. These are available at around HALF the price when new mainly -if not exclusively-down to the fact that FAC spring/gasram air rifles are so much harder to sell. That is why this model is currently the only gasram rifle I own and given the way prices of the Fenman and Evolutions have gone this looks likely to be the only one I am likely to own for the foreseeable future.

[bighit]

Because all springers are awfull and gas ram takes it several steps in the wrong direction combined with a sackfull of hype and some of the crappest triggers you could widlsh to find on anybairgun manufacturers range even though I loved my Rapid 17.
Gas rams are truly awful in every single way.
The4e is a reason they never got taken up as a go to solution. Its because they suck even more 5han Monica Lewinski

Only in your opinion though.

[Biglee123]

I always said that I would never buy one because I had read about the problems with leaking rams and lack of available spares, but now own 4 theobens, ( 2 sirocco's a fenman and an evo) and a hw90, and they are quite nice to shoot. Don't regret buying them at all..

[RichardH]

I’m not a fan but the workmanship just on the underlever of the 88/99 is very impressive.

[les allam]

I am picking one up in a couple of weeks from a forum member.
It's a Sirocco deluxe in A1 condition and am looking forward to it big time.
Les..

[Muskett]

In the days of Theoben then they had the rudest and most unhelpful telephone receptionist ever. She just didn't like people and must have been found in some Fen dike from the dark ages.
The quality of engineering, wood, and bluing, was better than anyone else's. Mid term the rifles looked fantastic, and I wished they hadn't tried to give them a "modern" look. There was a few other changes that didn't add anything much to the plot.
They were still a high ticket priced rifle compared to most other things out there. The gasram didn't add enough, and he trigger wasn't a record. And the PCP had taken over the world of precision accuracy; easier to shoot too.

People still buy springers because they want to shoot a springer. Air Arms makes fantastic springers. Others good ones, and some cheapies. Just not enough room for the gasram done as premium quality rifle. Theoben should have stuck with PCP's but even there the competition mounted to what we have today. Same reason to buy a gasram. But if its accuracy and state of the art you want then look at PCP's.

The comment about Thatcher and there being little money about is rubbish. In truth BSA and Webley went bust because the market for super cheap had gone. There was loads of money for performance which is why the Venom tuners did business. Weihraugh was making money to the point they could design and deliver the HW77. The Jap scope market went ballistic. There was money for quality, quality boys toys.
Heck carp rods could be bought for £100's of pounds.
It wasn't the case of no money, it was the case of loads of money for better kit.
Today a top PCP is several £k. Scopes too at all prices including over £2K. Lots of people are finding the cash for this stuff not just the super rich.
And it can't all be put down to inflation. In truth today mid range good kit is about the same price as the old stuff, but a whole lot better. A HW35 today has never been so cheap once discounting has been done.
Standards of living have been going up. Machining has got better. Its called progress. If thee is one niggle then it pellets now, they may be very good but wow they have got pricy. You would think they were inkjet cartridges!

[Shed tuner]

Good post. Only didn't quote the whole thing for brevity.

The Sirocco came out in 1982. The German barrels turned up in mid-84. Anschutz in .177" and .22". Diana (M&G) for the .20". For a while you could get special unchoked barrels to use with Prometheus pellets.

I have one of those barrels, marked "UC" - unchoked, presumably...

[Geezer]

The comment about Thatcher and there being little money about is rubbish. In truth BSA and Webley went bust because the market for super cheap had gone. There was loads of money for performance which is why the Venom tuners did business. Weihraugh was making money to the point they could design and deliver the HW77. The Jap scope market went ballistic. There was money for quality, quality boys toy

Careful, there, old chap. I was not making a political point.

The point I was making us that before the mid-80s economic boom, a lot of people did not have much disposable income, especially in the traditional manufacturing-based heartlands of the UK airgun trade, like the Midlands. 1982 was still a pretty challenging time for lots of people (think coal miners or steel workers), and the forty or fifty quid (think £125,now) you saved buying an HW80 compared to to a Theoben mattered. Of course, the enthusiasts found the money. But enthusiasts who will pay for quality are about 1% of the market, despite their presence in magazines and on forums.

BSA went bust (first time, 1973 I think) mostly because their motorcycle business collapsed under Japanese competition in the sixties. Not helped by the loss over time of MoD contracts to make the L1A1 SLR. And their 1950s failure to make a credible GPMG (their belt-feld Bren was awful, compared to the FN MAG), and losing the SMG competition to Sterling. Not to mention the P28 rifle, which, in trials, either did not work at all or blew up. Their business contracted, and became unviable before the airgun renaissance of the late 70s and early 80s. Which they also failed to see and respond to well.

Webley hung on till 2005, but died slowly over decades. The rot set in many years before when the Government basically nicked the Mk4 .380" revolver design and made it at Enfield.

Apart from a WW2 blip, both companies were in long-term decline. Neither seems to have had the leadership able to reverse the decline.

Basically, both companies saw themselves as potential big-league national and international players and discovered they were heading for the third-division and could not adapt quickly enough to survive. As Trump would say, SAD!

[mrto]

I like them......,but then maybe I don't really that much......,but I do have five or so of them!

Hmmm! I find them easy to be more than a little ambivalent about.....

[look no hands]

Because they don't make very good springers

Pete