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Thread: Why I am Beginning To Change My Mind About Sub12 Hunting

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumbuck View Post
    I shot a bunny years back with a .22lr and watched it run about 20yds with it's head bobbing on the ground stone dead!!!!!
    Let's face it bunnies are highly strung creatures
    Yep. I see that a lot too. not all do it or do it that you notice . I get some that "swim " their way back down the holes . some areas I shoot have holes all around each other so they have lots of options to get back down below .

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    bighit, most interesting post. Makes a lot of sense to me.
    As a Deer Warden I have to dispatch a good few deer. My method is a explosive brain shot. It can take a good while for the body to realise its very dead which is no help when there are witnesses to Bambi's demise.

    I was always told it was stored up energy and that as they are skittish they are ready to move at a milliseconds notice. When you took the brain out ,you let the energy escape via the muscles .

    Maybe that is the pre programmed bit

  3. #18
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    This flapping around after death is quite common in chickens I have dispatched. My mate Pat Yoko told me of a Cape Buffalo shot with a 375 Holland and Holland and it ran over 100 yards before dropping. When butchered its heart was found to be destroyed. Its thought the muscles in the body and legs keep the blood pumping around for a while. What a subject to get on !

    Baz
    BE AN INDEPENDENT THINKER, DON'T FOLLOW THE CROWD

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lensman57 View Post
    For years I have been believing that this level of power is fine for taking out the usual airgun quarry as ' humanely ' as possible. Having recently watched a lot of U Tube videos of the more responsible shooters and how increasingly they are trying to get closer to the target to make the one shot kill and quite often failing, I am now beginning to think that this level of power is not really suitable for general hunting of the allowed quarry but for perhaps close range ratting or taking the odd pigeon out. The problem from where I stand is that unless the shot is clinical to the brain the result is a wounded animal . Yes they are often taken out with a follow up shot but still. At 11 or so ft.lbs the pellets used do not impart much ballistic shock if any, even at very close distances, to the imapct area therefore even a very close miss does not do enough damage to kill the quarry cleanly. Perhaps the answer is to go for FAC guns of about 30+ ft.lbs where allowed.

    A.G
    It’s about placement, not power and sub 12 is ample for all sensible ranges and legitimate quarry in my experience.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by snock View Post
    When I went down the FAC route, in ~2002, I was struck by the increase in 'certainty' when shooting rabbits. 30ftlb does provide more certainty of a clean kill, than the 11+ftlb power level does. Prior to that it was imperative, if you wanted to reduce the chances of wounding - and who doesn't - you had to be, not just confident in your kit, but assured in your kit.

    A 12ftlb rifle has a place in the shooter's armoury that is unmatched by any other. But there are times, and more times than we'd like, where a 30ftlb rifle is a better bet.
    Yup, 100% agree
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simonsays View Post
    It’s about placement, not power and sub 12 is ample for all sensible ranges and legitimate quarry in my experience.
    Even if you were a world champion it would only be luck for a humaine quick kill because animals move, so shot placement is unreliable.

  7. #22
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    I converted to .177 in sub 12 for all my hunting a few years ago.
    Without doubt shot placement is key.

    But..... what I've found is that most .177 pellets do over penetrate. My thinking on this has lead me to use JSB express in .177 but actually at lower power.

    I run all my springers at 10.5 with express. The energy transfer with the lighter pellet is staggering. No over penetration, much more of a visible "mess" and cleaner kills.

    So in my mind its not about greater power. Its getting the combination of the rifle power and pellet choice right.
    B.A.S.C. member

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    Even if you were a world champion it would only be luck for a humaine quick kill because animals move, so shot placement is unreliable.
    Exactly my point.

    A.G

  9. #24
    Murphy is offline Cooee! Chase me you naughty boys!
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    We should all use .50 BMG with body shots to be 100% sure.

    Until they are banned!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by robs5230 View Post
    Without doubt shot placement is key.
    How do you get a animal to keep still every time while you shoot it?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    Even if you were a world champion it would only be luck for a humaine quick kill because animals move, so shot placement is unreliable.
    And that would be the same if you used a higher powered airgun or powder burner .

    so are you saying hunting with ALL firearms should be banned ?

    Or should we do as Murphy says and use a .50bmg to shoot animals as even if you hit its eyelash it will still blow it to pieces

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    And that would be the same if you used a higher powered airgun or powder burner .

    so are you saying hunting with ALL firearms should be banned ?

    Or should we do as Murphy says and use a .50bmg to shoot animals as even if you hit its eyelash it will still blow it to pieces
    The only way to be sure is landmines I reckon
    "corners should be round" Theo Evo .22/.177 - Meopta 6x42, DS huntsman classic .20 vortex razor LH 3-15x42 under supervised boingrati tuning by Tony L & Tinbum, HW77 forest green - Nikon prostaff 2-7x32 plex.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhyslightnin View Post
    The only way to be sure is landmines I reckon
    already banned for that reason alone I hear. It leaves nothing to sell to the butchers .

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    And that would be the same if you used a higher powered airgun or powder burner .

    so are you saying hunting with ALL firearms should be banned ?
    Well, not really.

    The movement required to make a 12 Fp airgun pellet miss the brain is miniscule - 8-10mm ?
    The movement required to miss a heart/lung shot with a .22 RF or 30 FP airgun is more like an inch.
    The heart/lung target area is much larger, but is only really an option when you have more power.

    This is what I found when I hunted with FAC air and RF anyways - it probably only extended my range from sub 12 40 yards to FAC 55 yards - but it meant I didnt need to aim for the tiny brain of my quary for every shot.

    Now the HMR allowed much longer ranges, but was just too noisy for someone used to silencer air or .22 subs.
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  15. #30
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    As hunters we should all try to be good sportsmen and do our very best to be as humane as possible. But we must recognise it is not a perfect science. Respect your quarry.
    Let us also remember that the Natural World is by far the cruelest of them all. Even human industrialisation can't match it. Most humans haven't any clue what is done on their behalf to provide for their needs and wants. At least a good sportsman recognises the magnitude and responsibility of what they are doing, and what they are doing is quite natural and normal and nothing we haven't been doing from the very beginning.

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