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Thread: Colt Peacemaker known issues?

  1. #1
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    Colt Peacemaker known issues?

    I'm not a happy chappie.

    My Colt Peacemaker SAA.45 Peacemaker (.177 pellet version) has just gone wrong for the 2nd time, apparently with the same problem.

    I'd had a half dozen shots no problem and was on my second 6 shots. First shot great, bang on target and as I took the next shot a slight change of note... what's this? NO hole in my target? Impossible!
    I opened the loading gate to find one empty shell (from the first shot) and one shell where the pellet had moved less than a quarter of an inch (I don't do metric) in the shell but unfired.

    I'll spare you all the boring details, just to say I eliminated the possibility of duff pellets, or faulty Co2 cylinders, by process of elimination.

    When I checked my records for this revolver, I noticed it had failed once before, with pretty much an IDENTICAL problem, after just 3 months!
    On that occasion it was returned to the seller under warranty, who returned it to their supplier. It was returned to me fixed... (maybe not) a month later.

    One year 3 months later it fails for the second time. Because it is out of warranty now I'm having to pay for it to be collected and will no doubt be without it for weeks until it gets repaired and returned.

    I NEVER leave it loaded with a Co2 cylinder still installed, for fear of the seal being compromised.

    What does puzzle me is - There was NO warning of anything going wrong. It had just fired 6, near perfect, shots.
    Now, when I load 6 shells, the first will fire, but then the others won't. Another 6 shells same thing. SO, there is enough pressure to fire one shot, but not the rest. Very odd. It's as if something is stopping a good seal forming and insufficient gas is being expelled to fully fire a pellet.

    When I gave up I released the pressure gently from the cylinder, which still had plenty of gas left in it.

    I've spoken to the in-house gunsmith at the retailer where I bought it. He has no ideas what the cause is. (The last time it went wrong there was a different gunsmith).

    Have any of you guys had the same failure with this revolver, and if so any idea of the cause? I'm no gunsmith and only have a basic knowledge of the mechanicals. I NEVER tamper with fixing anything myself. All I do is the occasional clean.

    The only issue I've heard of is the BB version damaging the barrel.

    Suggestions please?

    UPDATE ADDED 3.8.18

    For those of you who wanted to know, I got my revolver back today.

    The problem was a tiny pin had broken off the hammer inside the gun itself.

    I have (TRIED TO) attatch a parts diagram for the hammer assembly, and a picture of the pin itself, but for some (unknown) reason I have NO option to attatch pictures?
    Last edited by Sniper Pete; 03-08-2018 at 03:35 PM.
    The older I get, the more I know, the less makes sense!
    [BASC Member] Colt Government 1911 A1; Webley MK VI; Walther CP88; Beretta M92FS; Colt Peacemaker SAA; Gat; Webley Eclipse MK2 Carbine; Gamo Maxxim Elite.

  2. #2
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    Sure someone will be along with some helpful explanation.

    I have read (of other pistols) where the C02 bulb was not pierced adequately properly, such the first shot was good, second (very soon after) not so good.
    Have you tried both fast and slow shots to see if it could be this? What about a fault with the safety, not fully coming off such that the valve is not struck adequately/reliably? Just some initial thoughts.
    Treat Others As You Would Wish To Be Treated.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimstraight View Post
    Sure someone will be along with some helpful explanation.

    I have read (of other pistols) where the C02 bulb was not pierced adequately properly, such the first shot was good, second (very soon after) not so good.
    Have you tried both fast and slow shots to see if it could be this? What about a fault with the safety, not fully coming off such that the valve is not struck adequately/reliably? Just some initial thoughts.
    I've tried all sorts Aimstraight, and I can't make sense of it.

    I've got it all packaged up for collection now, but I don't think it's either of your suggestions. I'll leave it for the gunsmith to sort out now, but thanks any way.

    I was just asking to see if anyone had heard of this happening, or had it happen to their own Peacemaker. Sometimes these things can be a known issue, such as with the bb version of the same gun and barrel fault. which I know has been quite common in the past.
    I wouldn't normally bother but to have the SAME fault twice with the same gun struck me as highly unusual.
    The older I get, the more I know, the less makes sense!
    [BASC Member] Colt Government 1911 A1; Webley MK VI; Walther CP88; Beretta M92FS; Colt Peacemaker SAA; Gat; Webley Eclipse MK2 Carbine; Gamo Maxxim Elite.

  4. #4
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    Suggest you update this thread with the diagnosis by the gunsmith, it might help others.

    A potential issue could be the cylinder indexing not working as well as it should. I realize the pistol is all parceled up now, but for future reference (e.g. when it is returned to you) you could check that out. With NO C02 bulb in the pistol and no pellets loaded, indexing the cylinder (with the hammer), should cause the cylinder/shells to line up precisely with the barrel (this can be viewed with a torch down the barrel - NO C02 ).

    Some of the Umerex 8 shot rotary magazine pistols can succumb to a fault whereby the magazine/pellet do not line precisely with the barrel, result is the first few shots are good, the following shots go 'phut' as the pellet strikes the edge of the barrel. Seems feasible that this type of problem might occur on any indexing cylinder gun.
    Treat Others As You Would Wish To Be Treated.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimstraight View Post
    Suggest you update this thread with the diagnosis by the gunsmith, it might help others.

    A potential issue could be the cylinder indexing not working as well as it should. I realize the pistol is all parceled up now, but for future reference (e.g. when it is returned to you) you could check that out. With NO C02 bulb in the pistol and no pellets loaded, indexing the cylinder (with the hammer), should cause the cylinder/shells to line up precisely with the barrel (this can be viewed with a torch down the barrel - NO C02 ).

    Some of the Umerex 8 shot rotary magazine pistols can succumb to a fault whereby the magazine/pellet do not line precisely with the barrel, result is the first few shots are good, the following shots go 'phut' as the pellet strikes the edge of the barrel. Seems feasible that this type of problem might occur on any indexing cylinder gun.
    Yes, I will let people know the result, if they tell me. [The last time it went back to the retailer, who in turn returned it to their supplier (Armex?), so when I got it back nobody could tell me what the problem was!]

    It's not really possible for me to see properly down the barrel as, being a revolver where the rotary chamber doesn't swing out really limits visibility. Then there is the cartridge ejector mechanism. It's not as straightforward as a pistol with an 8 shot magazine would be.

    I get the best idea if things are lining up when I open the shell loading gate and gently move the cylinder back and forth. But that's quite loose at the best of times.
    If there are no shells loaded in the cylinder it doesn't give me any better view of the area where the "next to be fired" shell sits. Trying to see the part of the revolver where things may not be marrying up and seating correctly/indexing is really difficult. It is probably only possible with the revolver in bits, I don't know.

    I haven't a clue when I'll get it back. It's not even going to be collected until the weekend after this coming weekend. Then it will be sent on to the supplier (Armex?). They do whatever they do, and then it gets returned to the dealer, and after up to another 10-14 days after THAT I should get it back. I reckon between one and two months, being a pessimist!
    The older I get, the more I know, the less makes sense!
    [BASC Member] Colt Government 1911 A1; Webley MK VI; Walther CP88; Beretta M92FS; Colt Peacemaker SAA; Gat; Webley Eclipse MK2 Carbine; Gamo Maxxim Elite.

  6. #6
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    I've had similar issues with mine. It boils down to 3 issues. The first is variation in the cartrige seals. Some are too loose a fit, - some too tight. To overcome this, I made a brass pusher tool,. This tool is just a shouldered brass tapered pin to countersink the pellet in the cartridge. No more pellets left in cartridges and tighter groups!

    Then it started happening again, but much worse! This time no gas most of the time, other times the gun would jam in the half cocked position on squeezing the trigger. Apart it came....

    First fault was there were still casting flash/burrs on the trigger sear. Also the end wasn't finished square. Half an hr with a swiss file fixed that.

    On reassembly I found I had a smooth, light consistent trigger. Only problem was it now dropped into the halfcock position every time.


    Apart it came - Again!
    After an inspection of the tumbler end of the hammer, I found the halfcock notch to be quite open and the belly of the base of the hammer bulged out, - ensuring the tumbler caught the sear in halfcock position. Turns out some wally had been spinning my gun on their finger in half cock position and also squeezing the trigger with the hammer halfcocked!! ( I was away making some tea)
    The remedy was gentle light tapping on the belly with a toffee hammer and a piece of leather to close the sear notch up a little, followed by a little filing of the tumbler belly. Relube and reassemble. The action is now smoother than when it was new, the groups are tighter and the velocity is up.
    Sorted!
    Musketeer, Tin-Horseman and Axeman extraordinaire

  7. #7
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    Just to be clear to the OP, the point I was trying to make is - your problem might be overly tight seals in SOME of your cartridges/oversized pellet skirts. A pellet pusher will solve both these problems. Alternatively you might have a subtly bulged halfcock notch in the tumbler, which may be acting as a brake on the trigger sear, slowing the hammer fall, resulting in a light strike on the valve. Rather than grabbing the sear and jamming in the halfcock position. Both are easy fixes.
    Musketeer, Tin-Horseman and Axeman extraordinaire

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    I've had similar issues with mine. It boils down to 3 issues. The first is variation in the cartrige seals. Some are too loose a fit, - some too tight. To overcome this, I made a brass pusher tool,. This tool is just a shouldered brass tapered pin to countersink the pellet in the cartridge. No more pellets left in cartridges and tighter groups!

    Then it started happening again, but much worse! This time no gas most of the time, other times the gun would jam in the half cocked position on squeezing the trigger. Apart it came....

    First fault was there were still casting flash/burrs on the trigger sear. Also the end wasn't finished square. Half an hr with a swiss file fixed that.

    On reassembly I found I had a smooth, light consistent trigger. Only problem was it now dropped into the halfcock position every time.


    Apart it came - Again!
    After an inspection of the tumbler end of the hammer, I found the halfcock notch to be quite open and the belly of the base of the hammer bulged out, - ensuring the tumbler caught the sear in halfcock position. Turns out some wally had been spinning my gun on their finger in half cock position and also squeezing the trigger with the hammer halfcocked!! ( I was away making some tea)
    The remedy was gentle light tapping on the belly with a toffee hammer and a piece of leather to close the sear notch up a little, followed by a little filing of the tumbler belly. Relube and reassemble. The action is now smoother than when it was new, the groups are tighter and the velocity is up.
    Sorted!
    Zippy,

    Thanks for your response.
    None of my guns has ever been used by anyone likely to mistreat them. Just me and the gunsmith!

    I treat all my guns respectfully. They are all as good as new (when I bought them). They've NEVER been used outdoors, nor in the wet; not dropped, just fired and cleaned lightly occasionally.

    That's why I'm a bit narked. This shouldn't be happening, and for the second time! The reason I posted this thread being I was trying to see if it was a known fault, because I cannot see that I'm doing anything to cause this once, let alone twice!
    One way or another it will hopefully be repaired (and not do it for the third time).

    "you might have a subtly bulged halfcock notch in the tumbler" (sounds painful!)
    Last edited by Sniper Pete; 06-07-2018 at 12:44 PM.
    The older I get, the more I know, the less makes sense!
    [BASC Member] Colt Government 1911 A1; Webley MK VI; Walther CP88; Beretta M92FS; Colt Peacemaker SAA; Gat; Webley Eclipse MK2 Carbine; Gamo Maxxim Elite.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper Pete View Post
    Zippy,

    Thanks for your response.
    None of my guns has ever been used by anyone likely to mistreat them. Just me and the gunsmith!

    I treat all my guns respectfully. They are all as good as new (when I bought them). They've NEVER been used outdoors, nor in the wet; not dropped, just fired and cleaned lightly occasionally.

    That's why I'm a bit narked. This shouldn't be happening, and for the second time! The reason I posted this thread being I was trying to see if it was a known fault, because I cannot see that I'm doing anything to cause this once, let alone twice!
    One way or another it will hopefully be repaired (and not do it for the third time).
    I'm very careful with my stuff - and I was extremely narked! However looking inside one of these things was a revelation. The design is brilliant, the materials indifferent, the assembly workmanship - shoddy. I think all the SAAs are born with problems or potential problems, Just because the manufacturers wont spend anything on quality control and internal finish. This goes for most of the replica BB/ pellet firers. They all need a proper lube and polish as a bare minimum. You always need 1 boffin/Toymaker in your clan if you want to shoot rep's!
    Musketeer, Tin-Horseman and Axeman extraordinaire

  10. #10
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    If it is a potential problem with pellet skirt/seating, you may want to ask the gunsmith what pellets were used to test fire it before they returned it to you....which ones pass their test.

    Skirt diameters vary, I remember measuring up Geco and Hobby in the past, I put the numbers on here somewhere; think Geco were slightly smaller. A smaller pellet might not necessarily help if the cartridges vary too (e.g. too loose fit). Zippy seems to have found the answer with a pellet seater.
    Treat Others As You Would Wish To Be Treated.

  11. #11
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    I had a similar problem with shooting pellets from my Remington Cowboy.
    Gun quite happy with bbs so gave up shooting pellets with it.

    Not the answer here I know but I suspect some pellets eg Superdomes might be too tight for the Peacemaker.

    I have a few pellet Peacemakers and have not had this problem.
    I use Gecos and AA fields.

    How old and used is your Peacemaker?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingernut View Post
    I had a similar problem with shooting pellets from my Remington Cowboy.
    Gun quite happy with bbs so gave up shooting pellets with it.

    Not the answer here I know but I suspect some pellets eg Superdomes might be too tight for the Peacemaker.

    I have a few pellet Peacemakers and have not had this problem.
    I use Gecos and AA fields.

    How old and used is your Peacemaker?
    Hi Gingernut,
    I got the revolver in December 2016, so it's just over 18 months old. Its first failure was at 14 weeks.
    These days it probably gets used once every 1-2 weeks, say 100 shots each time. I tend to rotate use between my pistols and revolvers.
    I use Bisley Practice in all my pistols, but Webley Accupell in the revolvers. I have tried many other pellets and overall they seem above average and are (normally) trouble free.
    Last edited by Sniper Pete; 06-07-2018 at 12:54 PM.
    The older I get, the more I know, the less makes sense!
    [BASC Member] Colt Government 1911 A1; Webley MK VI; Walther CP88; Beretta M92FS; Colt Peacemaker SAA; Gat; Webley Eclipse MK2 Carbine; Gamo Maxxim Elite.

  13. #13
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    Seems high usage.
    !6 cylinders a session.
    Maybe its worn out?

    Bisley Practice should be ok.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimstraight View Post
    If it is a potential problem with pellet skirt/seating, you may want to ask the gunsmith what pellets were used to test fire it before they returned it to you....which ones pass their test.

    Skirt diameters vary, I remember measuring up Geco and Hobby in the past, I put the numbers on here somewhere; think Geco were slightly smaller. A smaller pellet might not necessarily help if the cartridges vary too (e.g. too loose fit). Zippy seems to have found the answer with a pellet seater.
    Hi Aimstraight,

    I use Bisley Practice in all my pistols and Webley Accupell in the revolvers. I have experimented with (many) others and overall these were above average for performance. I usually buy 10 tins (of 500) at a time. Get a bit of discount doing this with some sellers.

    I dont use a pellet seater - but I use a biro cap , which seats them exactly at the correct depth in the magazine (or shell if using revolvers). This also irons out any (slight) variation in skirt shape. Any pellet too damaged or misformed gets chucked away.

    I also now wash and lubricate all my pellets. I used to take the p**s out of people doing so, but it DOES improve performance. I even sometimes WEIGH pellets and sort them into batches by weight. That REALLY brings pellets into good target groupings, but I only do so occasionally. If I were competing then I'd always weigh first. It's quite time consuming and pretty boring doing so.
    These days I plink cans and have a variety of targets types, and I'm purely a back garden shooter now.
    Last edited by Sniper Pete; 06-07-2018 at 12:59 PM.
    The older I get, the more I know, the less makes sense!
    [BASC Member] Colt Government 1911 A1; Webley MK VI; Walther CP88; Beretta M92FS; Colt Peacemaker SAA; Gat; Webley Eclipse MK2 Carbine; Gamo Maxxim Elite.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    I'm very careful with my stuff - and I was extremely narked! However looking inside one of these things was a revelation. The design is brilliant, the materials indifferent, the assembly workmanship - shoddy. I think all the SAAs are born with problems or potential problems, Just because the manufacturers wont spend anything on quality control and internal finish. This goes for most of the replica BB/ pellet firers. They all need a proper lube and polish as a bare minimum. You always need 1 boffin/Toymaker in your clan if you want to shoot rep's!
    I wish I was confident enough to strip down and repair my guns, but I'm mature in age - my eyes aren't so good and the hands a little shaky to be messing with tiny springs, screws, ball bearings etc;
    The older I get, the more I know, the less makes sense!
    [BASC Member] Colt Government 1911 A1; Webley MK VI; Walther CP88; Beretta M92FS; Colt Peacemaker SAA; Gat; Webley Eclipse MK2 Carbine; Gamo Maxxim Elite.

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