About how many pistols were part of a typical Webley batch post War?

[45flint]

Just curious if there is a thought as to how many pistols are represented in a batch number?

[Josie & John]

Just curious if there is a thought as to how many pistols are represented in a batch number?

I suspect batches varied but honest answer is I have no clue!

John

[webman]

A survey was carried out a few years ago that asked for batch numbers of post-war pistols. It was confirmed by John Atkins (highly respected Webley expert and author) that the batches were not numbered. The numbers on the pistols represent the number of a pistol in a particular batch that is being worked on in the factory. The survey contained the following information:

Type Highest number

MK 1 2290

Senior 4486

Junior 5048

Junior MK 2 909

Premier 4219

Premier MK 2 962


I happened to save this information at the time in case it came in useful!

[45flint]

Good information kind of shows the uselessness of these numbers?

[Geezer]

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....-Batch-Numbers

I haven’t re-read the 11 page thread, but my recollection of it is that, with the possible exception of Premiers, batch numbers mean absolutely nothing except that someone stamped a number on a gun.

I’ve commented on other threads about some of the Webley rifle “serial numbers” that appear to be more numbers than a series.

Makes you wonder why they bothered. What utility was served by “batch numbers”? Was it perhaps that some jurisdictions require a serial number, so numbers get stamped on guns to make them legal for sale (I somewhere have a rubbish Chinese rifle that has a “serial” number stamped on the stock - I am confident it is not part of a series but simply a random collection of numbers to meet a legal requirement)?

[archer24]

The way it was explained to me, in a article in Airgun World I think was.
Each piece that had to be unique to the gun, body, screw in spring guide, trigger guard and barrel catch, were put together pre bluing.
Then machined to fit, then stamped with a batch number, taken apart and send for bluing.
When they got back the batch number was used by the assemblers to identify which parts went together.
This is why buying these bits are a lottery on how well they fit.

[webman]

Hi archer, I remembered that there had been an article about this quite a while ago, but my memory isn't what it was. These facts are initially published, then forgotten for a generation of airgunners, then resurrected all over again for the next bunch! It's just as well that a few veterans like me are still about. Thanks for saving me a lot of time looking for the correct magazine that the data was in.

[Geezer]

The way it was explained to me, in a article in Airgun World I think was.
Each piece that had to be unique to the gun, body, screw in spring guide, trigger guard and barrel catch, were put together pre bluing.
Then machined to fit, then stamped with a batch number, taken apart and send for bluing.
When they got back the batch number was used by the assemblers to identify which parts went together.
This is why buying these bits are a lottery on how well they fit.

That makes sense. Thanks for that.

[harry mac]

Isn't there anyone around that used to work at Webley to give us the definitive answer?

[45flint]

The way it was explained to me, in a article in Airgun World I think was.
Each piece that had to be unique to the gun, body, screw in spring guide, trigger guard and barrel catch, were put together pre bluing.
Then machined to fit, then stamped with a batch number, taken apart and send for bluing.
When they got back the batch number was used by the assemblers to identify which parts went together.
This is why buying these bits are a lottery on how well they fit.

If this is true batch number must be on various parts? Never had mine apart, is this true? If so how many parts have the number?

[Geezer]

If this is true batch number must be on various parts? Never had mine apart, is this true? If so how many parts have the number?

According to Gordon Bruce’s book, post-war Seniors had the batch number on the frame (under the left grip) and on the spring guide. Premiers had it on the frame in the same way and on the “flange at the front of the air cylinder”. For post-war Mark 1s, he says they were batch numbered on the frame, trigger guard, barrel catch and the “spring guide flange in front of the air cylinder”.

[45flint]

According to Gordon Bruce’s book, post-war Seniors had the batch number on the frame (under the left grip) and on the spring guide. Premiers had it on the frame in the same way and on the “flange at the front of the air cylinder”. For post-war Mark 1s, he says they were batch numbered on the frame, trigger guard, barrel catch and the “spring guide flange in front of the air cylinder”.

If this is true of the Seniors then I question that the number was there because they were hand fitted and as they went off to be blued they could tie the parts back to the same gun? If just the frame and spring guide are numbered? Makes no sense.

[Geezer]

If this is true of the Seniors then I question that the number was there because they were hand fitted and as they went off to be blued they could tie the parts back to the same gun? If just the frame and spring guide are numbered? Makes no sense.

My view, too. I can see it for the Mark 1 with four separate marked parts, but not for the Senior or Premier, assuming Bruce’s information is accurate and complete (which it usually is). It’s a mystery.

[ccdjg]

A possible reason for marking only the frame and muzzle plug/spring guide is that these are the only two components where perfect mating is important. When the muzzle cylinder plug and the cylinder had been threaded, the muzzle plug would have been screwed in fully and then the pivot hole drilled and barrel recess milled out to ensure perfect alignment. As it is very difficult to ensure exactly the start and end of the threading process it is most likely that if a different muzzle plug were to be used and screwed in fully, the pivot hole and barrel recess would not line up exactly.

[45flint]

A possible reason for marking only the frame and muzzle plug/spring guide is that these are the only two components where perfect mating is important. When the muzzle cylinder plug and the cylinder had been threaded, the muzzle plug would have been screwed in fully and then the pivot hole drilled and barrel recess milled out to ensure perfect alignment. As it is very difficult to ensure exactly the start and end of the threading process it is most likely that if a different muzzle plug were to be used and screwed in fully, the pivot hole and barrel recess would not line up exactly.

Good point, I actually was confused when they talked about spring guide, and frame. I didn’t know the number on the front end was endplug/spring guide. I never took off my grips (did just now) to see the batch number under them. Thus the matching of these to parts would warrant numbering as they went off to be blued.