Bsa Superstar or Weihrauch HW77

[trajectory]

As in the title really. With the benefit of experience & hindsight which do you think was the better of the two in carbine or full length barrel? I'd like to keep the HW97 out of the equation but if anyone wants to refer to it in comparisson with either the HW77 or Superstar i'd be happy to hear what they say. I know the Rekord trigger was a bit of a gem but the Superstar trigger was pretty good too, the Superstar has a bit of an awkward sight rail to remove for servicing but its not as if it has to be taken off that often. The rotary breach in the Superstar is a bit of a winner for me though, but in the end does it all just come down to personal choice. Is the clincher the simple fact that Superstar production ended & HW carried on & developed the '97 making a Weihrauch the winner, if the Superstar came out earlier do you think it would it have had better sales? If I had to choose between them I would find it quite tricky, but I think I might go for the BSA. Close thing though.

[les allam]

I would say 80+ percent would go with the 77, I am a big fan of the Superstar and my one keeps up with my Hw97 and Tx200 in the accuracy department.The 77 didn't win all those Ft comp's back in the day for being just average.
Les..

[Bullnose]

I have both of these and while I know it can be different from gun to gun I would be interested to know what pellets you have found they prefer. Thanks

[Geezer]

Have had 3 77s and one Mk1 Superstar rifle. I do like the rotary breech (though the6 could have executed it better), but I much prefer the 77s overall.

[PCPShooter]

The 77 - K for me, you can't really say a Superstar is better - the BSA has a breach that wears out( though replaceable) poorer trigger, barrels not too hot in 177 .

I like the Superstar though, kinda regret selling mine now - much lighter, nice safe rotary breach design - in 22 try Superfields, Superdome, FTT in 5.53 or 5.54
A mate has my old one as his rat gun or 'garden pigeon' gun (big garden)

Mind you I sold my first 77k, and did buy another, it's the only time I've replaced a 'sold rifle' , oh maybe HW80 as well

I think at the time I was getting rid of 'big heavy' rifles, but now appreciate them more for their robustness, and lots of new really good lightweight scopes like Nikon 2-7x32 make them more appealing too

[El Garro]

As was said earlier, the 77 is an excellent gun all round , but, the Superstar is very good too.
There's a few different opinions about the long transfer port through the rotary breech and some don't like the trigger but once again it'll be down to personal taste. I've shot a lot of guns with Rekord triggers that are badly set up but the owners didn't complain.
There's talk of the break barrel BSA guns having 'issues' with the bore where they were brazed to the breech block but the Superstar and Goldstar won't suffer with this (that's if there is a problem in the first place)
I'd guess that if both guns were put head to head, the 77 would come out on top but the Superstar is lighter, the finish was very good and if it went horribly wrong, you can't chop the end of your fingers off in the breech
I like to buy Blitish and have a soft spot for Brummie guns so I'm slightly biased
With new breech O ring, a new piston seal, ( I've found the black BSA seals can sometimes look like new but still be worn, so tend to replace them in a new to me gun ) and a good cylinder polish and lube can make for a nice smooth shooter. I made a steel top hat weight, used a bit less spring and a Webley 'clothes peg' spring guide in my last one and it was sweet as a nut. Superdomes were the pellet of choice in that one (.22) but I think FTT were good too.
The 77 may be a bit more pleasing to the eye and is deadly accurate when sorted so if in doubt there's always the option of buying one of each, just in case

[trajectory]

Never tried a 177 Superstar or heard that the 177 barrel could be an issue, is it just the Superstar 177 or was it all of the BSA types of that generation it effects? Was it general varriabillity or just that they were not as inherrently accurate as the HW barrels?
Accupells & Superdomes seem to perform well. Im not sure about the mechanical design aspect of the two trigger mechanisms when you compare them to one another but the BSA's I have tried seem pretty good to me. Once set they seem to hold their adjustment & be very useable. The Rekord units always get the enthusiastic comments but from a user's point of view are they really that better?

[PCPShooter]

The guns of that gen couldn't match the German 177 barrels - BSA and Webley knocked out excellent 22 barrels

Webley later imported Walther barrels, AA use German barrels etc etc it was the start of all that

Even my not so old / though earlier BSA 177 PCP's , only shoot heavy pellets , so in effect very 'pellet fussy'

I gather finally BSA have got the hang of 177 barrels that compete with HW etc (though more variance)

[SRV1]

Never tried a 177 Superstar or heard that the 177 barrel could be an issue, is it just the Superstar 177 or was it all of the BSA types of that generation it effects? Was it general varriabillity or just that they were not as inherrently accurate as the HW barrels?
Accupells & Superdomes seem to perform well. Im not sure about the mechanical design aspect of the two trigger mechanisms when you compare them to one another but the BSA's I have tried seem pretty good to me. Once set they seem to hold their adjustment & be very useable. The Rekord units always get the enthusiastic comments but from a user's point of view are they really that better?

I have several Superstars including 0.177 and Carbine versions.....I have never heard of any problems, the only thing I can think of was possibly a review of loading 0.177 pellets into the rotary breech with boxing gloves on. Compared to my HW77's and other HW's, also Anschutz 335 and a MasterSport FWB 127, the Superstars will match them any day - mind, I only shoot open sights.

Curious enough, my Superstars shoot the modern, so called inferior Wasps, as good as the Superdomes......

All the best.......By the way; Anyone migrating from Superstars and enjoying troublesome PCP's, cylinders/testing, wonky fittings, mysterious leaks and boring pellet after pellet in the same hole, give us a shout - I may be interested in your un-loved Superstar....

[trajectory]

Thanks for all the replies & comments so far. It's interesting to hear the different views about the .177 versions of the Superstar. Perhaps I can use that as an excuse to go & look for one myself & see how it performs. Certainly in .22 I like it a lot.

[Thegreg]

If I had to have one of them I'd take the Superstar. I think they're lovely rifles. The HW77 is arguably a better engineered gun but I'd get more enjoyment from owning a Superstar. I've got a .177 with no accuracy issues whatsoever, I'd put it up against any HW springer.

Cheers
Greg

[trajectory]

If I had to have one of them I'd take the Superstar. I think they're lovely rifles. The HW77 is arguably a better engineered gun but I'd get more enjoyment from owning a Superstar. I've got a .177 with no accuracy issues whatsoever, I'd put it up against any HW springer.

Cheers
Greg

That's pretty encouraging news about the .177 being an accurate rifle. If I see one in the right condition & at the right sort of price I could be tempted.

[mattie]

Nice post this. I've had both, the hw77 was tje better engineered rifle and very accurate with superdomes, however.....there was something about my mk1 .22 superstar, lovely looking, it was superbly accurate with domes again, nice safe breach, resettable safety, trigger was a good one, lighter and had character but the maxi grip scope rail was it's downfall, a ridiculous abomination of a feature, being 14mm wide and hard as nails to remove, mounts were a pain even the special BKL wide ones, made replacing the innards a real pain. Do regret selling it last year though. Now have a .177 lgv comp ultra which sadly shoots the pants off the bsa (and standard Hw97k too!)

PS saying that, if I see a mint .22 superstar mk2 carbine I'd probably have it. Saw one at a fair and it had gone within the hour.

[trajectory]

The Superstar certainly seems to have a strong following with even some of those who have sold theirs still having an inclination to getting one again. Still waiting to hear if anyone has a good word to say about the Maxigrip rail that BSA fitted. (might be a long weight).I assume it was meant to provide an especially stable base for a telescopic sight, but I wonder if the solution they offered was the best option. Do you think the Superstars recoil characteristics were that different to need a special type of rail? Generally I think the Superstar is pretty well made, the stock size & shape is very comfortable for me. A .20 version would have been interesting but although I'd be interested in a .177 I don't think I'd ever have much interest in a .25. Thinking about it I wonder if a .20 would have out sold a.25. As an aside does anyone know the production numbers for the three calibres?

[SRV1]

Hi trajectory...
Once the Maxi-grip is removed - after some years attached this can be a pain to do, but, with applying WD40 around the sides and into the tang area (obviously the spring is out as the gun is being stripped) and letting it soak in, with a little initial clamp pressure, careful persuasion with a hardwood drift, it will start to move sufficiently to remove the clamp and continue to move back sufficient to clear the slots and lift away. Once out, clean off all the old "cushions" and with needle file clean up the tangs where burred - I also trim the leading edges of the tangs so that they lead into the slots or keys in the cylinder easily. The replacement "cushions" are expensive for what they are, get 1.5mm black rubber sticky back sheet from the dock of the bay so to speak. It will cost pence for a sheet that many can be made! Once strips cut to size, remove the backing on the sticky side and apply to a clean underside of the rail. Grease top of cylinder and inside of Maxi rail and it takes hardly any effort to replace - just a bit if pressure by hand is sufficient, and once started can be repositioned with just light taps with a soft faced mallet or piece of wood. Removing in future for maintenance later is easy.....