Slugs

[krisko]

What’s the point of these, they cause so much friction in the barrel and problems with loading.

The improved BC barely makes it up for the initial loss of power.
When I calculated one would have to shoot over 120yards to overtake the current pellets!

[Big Seth]

What’s the point of these, they cause so much friction in the barrel and problems with loading.

The improved BC barely makes it up for the initial loss of power.
When I calculated one would have to shoot over 120yards to overtake the current pellets!

They are quick at shredding my hosta...

[SuffolkRifle]

They are quick at shredding my hosta...

And they'll strip out a seed tray of Nicotiana seedlings overnight

[Geezer]

Apart from shell-less gastropod molluscs, what do you mean by “slugs”?

[averageplinker]

I suspect he is referring to air bullets as used in other territories with no power restrictions. I believe the answer lies in the need to cope with velocities over 900+FPS and/or the power pulse of an air rifle designed to give 3 shots with say a .357 lump of lead.
I cannot see such rifles having any real application in the UK even for FAC shooters.
Rich.

[arnie2b]

Slugs are still in it's infancy Edgun posted a recent video about them which is worth a watch.

There are people buying slug liners in .25 for the impact but they can't hit the proverbial barn door at a 100 with them at the minute.

If you have to get an fac you might aswell get a rimfire which are far cheaper to buy and at the moment far cheaper to run looking at the price of the NSA ammo (50% more expensive for a 100 .22 23gr compared to 100 40gr .22rimfire).

If you cast and size them yourself and they work in your gun you're on to a winner. That ain't easy for the smaller calibers.
Casting for big bores is easier and with the umarex hammer coming out it becomes a bit more affordable for the masses.

Once the big companies follow suit the prices might come down and the quality goes up.

A cz 452 with match ammo will outshoot a Huben K1 self loading .22 any day of the week at present.


About slugs - Edgun
There are uses and advantages for them even at present. To explain that fully will take some time though.

etc..

[GB2017]

Slugs are still in it's infancy Edgun posted a recent video about them which is worth a watch.

There are people buying slug liners in .25 for the impact but they can't hit the proverbial barn door at a 100 with them at the minute.

If you have to get an fac you might aswell get a rimfire which are far cheaper to buy and at the moment far cheaper to run looking at the price of the NSA ammo (50% more expensive for a 100 .22 23gr compared to 100 40gr .22rimfire).

If you cast and size them yourself and they work in your gun you're on to a winner. That ain't easy for the smaller calibers.
Casting for big bores is easier and with the umarex hammer coming out it becomes a bit more affordable for the masses.

Once the big companies follow suit the prices might come down and the quality goes up.

A cz 452 with match ammo will outshoot a Huben K1 self loading .22 any day of the week at present.


About slugs - Edgun
There are uses and advantages for them even at present. To explain that fully will take some time though.

etc..

very interesting video, thanks for the link

[rapidresponse1]

good vid bud

[averageplinker]

Will have to view the video when I get home tonight!

[krisko]

How can jsb design a slug when they have no unchoked barreled air gun to test them in, catch 22

Cooperation and communication lags on both sides clearly.
They are blaming each other, hopefully a third party will exploit the situation


Something is telling me when they finally come out... some countries will put restriction on such ammo.

[arnie2b]

Prototype H&N slugs

https://www.youtube.com/user/tofazfou/videos
This guy was shooting cans at a 1/4 mile with his simmons scope long before the impact even came out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV1caY8myfs

Check his .17hmair videos, he head shoots a ground squirrel at 190 yards. That's the project I've got in mind lack of time etc..

I 'doubt' airarmsSA can do that with his impact and nightforce scope.

[Geezer]

Something is telling me when they finally come out... some countries will put restriction on such ammo.

A real possibility already. Outside the U.K., with the long-established 12 ft-lbs limit.

Setting aside the historical precedents (Girandoni etc) in 1979, a top power air rifle made 11-15.

1980, the HW80 was gusting 20.

1990s, the Patriot, Eliminator and modern PCPs were hitting 30 ft-lbs in .22” and .25”.

Now, there is stuff out there in .357” and .45” making as much as 500 ft-lbs.

At some point, in unrestricted jurisdictions:

A) a criminal will kill someone with an air rifle that makes more power than a 9mm or 45ACP;
B) a mass-shooting nutter will do the same, just more than once;
C) pressure groups/politicians/media will discover that “BB guns” now make more power than a 45ACP. Especially if the next step in development involves magazine repeaters, real or fake semi-auto, etc.

[arnie2b]

A real possibility already. Outside the U.K., with the long-established 12 ft-lbs limit.

Setting aside the historical precedents (Girandoni etc) in 1979, a top power air rifle made 11-15.

1980, the HW80 was gusting 20.

1990s, the Patriot, Eliminator and modern PCPs were hitting 30 ft-lbs in .22” and .25”.

Now, there is stuff out there in .357” and .45” making as much as 500 ft-lbs.

At some point, in unrestricted jurisdictions:

A) a criminal will kill someone with an air rifle that makes more power than a 9mm or 45ACP;
B) a mass-shooting nutter will do the same, just more than once;
C) pressure groups/politicians/media will discover that “BB guns” now make more power than a 45ACP. Especially if the next step in development involves magazine repeaters, real or fake semi-auto, etc.

Some eejit will ruin it no doubt one way or the other.
Airguns still fall in the same bracket as crossbows at the moment and one needs a certain amount of braincells and skill to use them.

They put black powder revolvers on licence ages ago here because someone got it in their head to rob and kill a taxi driver with one.
They did the same thing with 'hunting firearms (smooth and rifled) because someone walked in to a gun shop and bought one 30/30 lever action legally and shot 3 people, 2 of them died. This was 2006.
The latest one is the licencing of magazines, smartly licencing all deactivated weapons because terrorists could buy ak magazines too freely.

Your mass shooter isn't very likely to lug his scuba tank with external regulator with him when he can obtain almost anything he wants on the black market at present.
Never say never.

[ballisticboy]

Slugs can and will work if they are designed and manufactured properly. One problem I have noticed is that many designs appear to be based on 9mm pistol bullet designs, a design noted for poor accuracy while many contain detail mistakes. The Piledriver was a classic case with the boat tail the wrong shape and angle and other chateristics also poor for good flight. Some slug designs are so ridiculous that you have to wonder what the designer was on when he thought of them.
Nearly all of the slug designs have been far too heavy for sub 12FPE use. This is inevitable if solid lead designs are made. If a hollow lead design is tried to reduce the weight then the moments of inertia are all wrong for good ballistic behaviour. Attempts to use zinc or tin have been little better as again the moments of inertia are poor when combined with the usual barrel twist rates.
It does seem to be possible to design and make a slug shaped projectile with a high BC and low weight for use in 12FPE guns in both .177 and .22 calibres. It will need to be made from lead and other materials to obtain the correct balance of inertias and aerodynamic moments. However it will not be a 9mm type shape and the most radical versions will only work at subsonic speeds so the market is probably too limited for most manufacturers. No plastic would be allowed to touch the gun barrel.

[averageplinker]

A very interesting post from ballisticboy above.

I am still left feeling that.....

A) there is unlikely to be an application for such slugs for a non-FAC shooter like myself
B) if slugs are developed for sub 12ftlb market they are unlikely to offer a major advantage over diablo pellets to justify development costs
C) there will be an application for very high power and possibly larger calibre air rifles in foreign markets
D) I do not think that development of slugs will lead to your average mass shooter turning away from firearms as has been suggested somewhere above

Rich.