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Thread: 1869 3 band Snider mark 3 rifle

  1. #1
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    1869 3 band Snider mark 3 rifle

    Just came today is a new rifle to my small collection. A 1869 3 band Mark 3 Snider .577 rifle. I will be uploading photos of all markings I can find, I am still a novice and I don't recognize some of them so if there are any you know, please let me know.

    She is in a sorry state, full of dirt and gunk and who knows what else. Stock is cracked, Breech opens but extraction mechanism is jammed. Was sold to me as being "complete" and it is, sort of. As you can see in the photos there is what seems to be a cleaning rod. Well, after fighting to get the thing out. It turns out to be a length of metal rod someone has cut down to look like a cleaning rod, Cheeky beggar! Oh well I don't mind too much.

    I basically bought it unseen since there was only one photo and it was only of the breech and nothing else. Got it for a decent price (Well I think so...) and I was feeling a bit 'lucky' so I thought "why the hell not".

    From the one photo I thought it might of been a Nepalese rifle but to my surprise, it looks to be British made with no foreign markings on the rifle. And while the lock is well worn, you can just make out the date and the top of the crown marking. The marking you can see look legit but I am no expert. I shall include photos for you all below.

    The bore is covered in rust....cant say much else, who knows what it looks like underneath all that rust but I can see that the outside of the barrel, especially the part that comes in contact with the wood, has next to no pitting whatsoever! Which in my eyes is nothing short of a miracle. Even my Martini Henry carbine which has a near mint bore has some pitting on the outside. So I am a bit shocked. Hopefully, and I mean hopefully, the bore is not too bad underneath all that thing rust. Fingers crossed.

    I am in the process of stripping it to bits and cleaning it. So far I have every thing out apart from the trigger block, which seems to be stuck due to all that much. The barrel, barrel bands, lock plate ect all all out. Will be disassembling the breech block later. Someone in the past has had the barrel out since when they put it back, they put the rear band back the wrong way round!

    Also another thing that I find weird is that there is no bayonet lug. Bit strange on what I would guess be a infantry rifle (dont think it was made for the civilian market since there are war department markings on the rifle, but I could be wrong).

    Anyway, if anyone can enlighten me on this rifle, please do so. Thank you.

    Here are all the photos:

    https://imgur.com/gallery/D6CI9iQ

    Also a short video (though I apologize for the poor quality, I was doing it one handed on my phone):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha0D-247yUE&t=46s

  2. #2
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    As you note, sad indeed to see. but not beyond recovery. It is a MkIII - an all-steel rifle that was MADE as a Snider, and not converted. Spare firing pins are available from Peter Dyson - you might need one after you filmed yourself dry-firing it, something that the soldier of the day would have done only once, and earned a week's stoppages. Also the extractor spring from Dyson, as well as proper cleaning rods. Don't be too downhearted about the lack the lack of a a bayonet lug - I have two of them - a short rifle as well as a three-band, like yours - and only the short rifle has a bayonet lug. All the markings are good, and the use of an early lock is of interest, but not much.

    Take a look at Rob's series about the snider on britishmuzzleloaders on Youtube. He's a hoot, as well and nice guy, and hugely knowledgeable about the Snider as well as a lot of others. Do you intend to shoot it? If so, please PM me for details, unless, of course, you are already fully up to speed. You can see me shooting mine on Youtube - tac's guns Snider.

    BTW, the Snider three-band rifle was NOT made for the civilian market, although many in India were converted for officers to use on shikar - having a sporting gun that used the same cartridge as the issue was a good idea, doncha know?

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the info, Ah yes I did film myself doing something I should of not. Wont happen again

    I dont plan on firing it anytime soon as I dont have an FAC. Would love to do so one day though.

    I have stripped it down and found that it must have had contact with water at some point. A lot of the brass has a greenish material on it. The trigger mechanism is covered in the stuff so I dont think its had an easy life. Now I am just trying to get the breech block removed so that I can take that apart and clean it. Once that is done I shall clean the barrel and see what I am left with.

  4. #4
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    does the latch work ? as they tend to stick and can be a pain to free up.
    i have 3 x snider mk 3 and they are easy to work on.
    when you get the breech off stick your finger in the chamber and check for rust as you tend to find it at the 12 oclock position......hard to remove lol...but possible.
    it needs doing as you might not be able to chamber the brass.....and if you dont fully remove rust the first time you fire a strong load to fireform the brass it will stick in the chamber and you have to whack the breech to open...dont ask how i know.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by loiner1965 View Post
    does the latch work ? as they tend to stick and can be a pain to free up.
    i have 3 x snider mk 3 and they are easy to work on.
    when you get the breech off stick your finger in the chamber and check for rust as you tend to find it at the 12 oclock position......hard to remove lol...but possible.
    it needs doing as you might not be able to chamber the brass.....and if you dont fully remove rust the first time you fire a strong load to fireform the brass it will stick in the chamber and you have to whack the breech to open...dont ask how i know.
    I have got it all in pieces. The latch on the breech does work, though the extractor is stuck.

    As for rust.....well there is no way around it. The entire bore is covered in rust I cant get a photo but in the ones I do have you can see the breech has a lot of rust in it. I tried a snap cap and yes, it will not go in all the way. I have some cleaning equipment coming.

    I have no idea how the bore will be once cleaned. Though, the breech trench which was equally rusty has cleaned up good so fingers crossed. Though I suspect the rifling will not have survived.

  6. #6
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    bung the muzzle up with a tight fitting bung ....stand upright in a bucket and fill from chamber with caustic soda mixed with warm water.....white vinegar is good but will take bluing off.....after a few days empty barrel and use a loose fitting brass cleaning bore brush with some strands off those pound shop stainless steel pan scubbers wrapped around and give it a good brushing.....then repeat with caustic soda etc.....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by loiner1965 View Post
    bung the muzzle up with a tight fitting bung ....stand upright in a bucket and fill from chamber with caustic soda mixed with warm water.....white vinegar is good but will take bluing off.....after a few days empty barrel and use a loose fitting brass cleaning bore brush with some strands off those pound shop stainless steel pan scubbers wrapped around and give it a good brushing.....then repeat with caustic soda etc.....
    Aye thats sounds like a good idea. Ill do that then. I have the breech block and other bits soaking to help free them up.

    Now I just have to look at getting the stock repaired. The break is rather simple and I might have a go myself.

    Cheers

  8. #8
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    Someone has been asking about their snider on imgur. Here are the pictures: https://imgur.com/gallery/1jn3N

    He says that it was brought back from Afghanistan. Looks real to me (or a very well made fake, I am no expert) but has been heavily polished and engraved which I think is typical of afgan guns. Was probably a captured British rifle.



    Oh also, anyone know what the crown over x inspection marking is? I understand that a crown over E is the inspection marking at the Enfield factory but what does X mean?
    Last edited by Huttles94; 11-04-2019 at 09:55 PM.

  9. #9
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    I have just been looking at the photos of the butt plate. I can make out the number 70 (just), cant make out the number underneath it, looks like its starts with 8. And after a little digging, could the 70 mean the 70th (Surrey) Regiment of Foot? Or is the top number the rack number ect? Would be nice to know where it was issued.

  10. #10
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    Condition wise I think it looks good.
    I got an Albini Brandaelin that looked like a piece of rusty tubing stuck to a lump of wood! It cleaned up enough to make it good enough to be a wallhanger, but it had had a hard life. The forend was split and the front barrel band is missing and the backsight sight has been ripped off.

    If you want to clean the bore get a length of aluminium tubing and cut a slot in the end, about 1/4" in, so you can put a strip of emery cloth in and wrap it around so it fits the bore. At the other end rivet a piece of aluminium or brass bar in so it will fit in a drill chuck.
    All you have to do is keep going up and down with the drill running and change the emery cloth as it wears. The barrel will come up looking reasonable eventually.

    If you cannot fix the crack in the stock with epoxy resin and the piece can be detached from the wood, knock a couple of panel pins in part way and snip the heads off. Then press to two halves together. This will mark where the pins are and then you pull out the panel pins and drill holes where the marks are and you can epoxy a piece of dowel in. If you do that put a slot in the side of the dowel so it wont air-lock.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by enfield2band View Post
    Condition wise I think it looks good.
    I got an Albini Brandaelin that looked like a piece of rusty tubing stuck to a lump of wood! It cleaned up enough to make it good enough to be a wallhanger, but it had had a hard life. The forend was split and the front barrel band is missing and the backsight sight has been ripped off.

    If you want to clean the bore get a length of aluminium tubing and cut a slot in the end, about 1/4" in, so you can put a strip of emery cloth in and wrap it around so it fits the bore. At the other end rivet a piece of aluminium or brass bar in so it will fit in a drill chuck.
    All you have to do is keep going up and down with the drill running and change the emery cloth as it wears. The barrel will come up looking reasonable eventually.

    If you cannot fix the crack in the stock with epoxy resin and the piece can be detached from the wood, knock a couple of panel pins in part way and snip the heads off. Then press to two halves together. This will mark where the pins are and then you pull out the panel pins and drill holes where the marks are and you can epoxy a piece of dowel in. If you do that put a slot in the side of the dowel so it wont air-lock.
    I have managed to glue the stock together. It is pretty solid right now. All i have to do to the crack now is smarten it up. I was originally thinking about sending it off for a repair but its a pretty clean break. Someone in the past has hammered some nails into the break to "fix" it. Nails look to be over 50 years old so not a recent repair. Still, gotta get them out or at least cut the heads off the nails to make it look a bit neat.

    I also found that the screw that holds the breech pin in on mine has been replaced with a nail that has had its pin bent over! Probably the same bloke who worked on the stock.

    I have a cleaning rod and screw coming, thank god parts are somewhat easy to get.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huttles94 View Post
    I have managed to glue the stock together. It is pretty solid right now. All i have to do to the crack now is smarten it up. I was originally thinking about sending it off for a repair but its a pretty clean break. Someone in the past has hammered some nails into the break to "fix" it. Nails look to be over 50 years old so not a recent repair. Still, gotta get them out or at least cut the heads off the nails to make it look a bit neat.

    I also found that the screw that holds the breech pin in on mine has been replaced with a nail that has had its pin bent over! Probably the same bloke who worked on the stock.

    I have a cleaning rod and screw coming, thank god parts are somewhat easy to get.
    Nice to know that Bubba is alive and well and operating in the UK.

  13. #13
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    I have managed to strip the rifle down and have cleaned it all up. Does not look too bad now. No bluing left of course but pitting is minimal (less than my Martini). Extractor works great, hammer half and full cocks fine now. Trigger is smooth and all looks good. The rear barrel band is still seized, I have that soaking in WD40 at the moment. Tried a heat gun but the screw will not budge.

    All thats left (apart from the rear band) is to sort the bore out. I have some caustic soda arriving tomorrow. Fingers crossed it turn out ok. Really pleased with it now.

    Also does anyone know what the x means on the inspection markings? I know if it was E (like the markings on the lock) it would mean Enfield, B would be Birmingham ect but I have no idea what X is for.

    Im also missing the front sling mount but that does not bother me too much.

    I also cleaned the lock plate up somewhat and I can just see that it says 1869 Enfield.

    Well wish me luck with the bore! Not bad for what could of been considered as a lost cause at first.

  14. #14
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    is the barrel band on the rifle still ?
    as some you need to squeeze the 2 ends together to take the pressure off then unscrew.
    i would use heat from a pencil flame torch and add 50 / 50 mix acetone and atf.....keep doing this daily and it will come loose.....of course try to tighten first to break the rust

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by loiner1965 View Post
    is the barrel band on the rifle still ?
    as some you need to squeeze the 2 ends together to take the pressure off then unscrew.
    i would use heat from a pencil flame torch and add 50 / 50 mix acetone and atf.....keep doing this daily and it will come loose.....of course try to tighten first to break the rust
    The band is not on the rifle at the moment. I will be leaving it to soak for a few days/week and then try the heat again. Will get it eventually. I had the same problem on my Martini Henry. It will come loose eventually Though of course I do not want to damage the screw head. Thanks for the tips anyway.

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