Packham gets General License revoked!!!!

[Squintykid]

Mine is only for pest control. The only reason I have any of my Certificates

Same here

[Muskett]

It will get to the stage that only "professional" shots can shoot anything.

There is a learning curve to hunting. The skills and etiquette, the due respect for the quarry. Many a lessons learnt in the back garden. Education and individual responsibility are key.

This mess helps no one.
Some of the comments here are sanctimonious and barely veiled attacks on hunting sports. I eat meat, I control vermin, I shoot stuff. I am responsible and hold all life in high regard. Please don't tell me what I can and can't do. "You" do not hold the moral high ground, in fact many of these anti hunting beliefs are weird.

I'm sick of KFC Conservationists as found on BBC Wildlife Watch.

[RobF]

It will get to the stage that only "professional" shots can shoot anything.

There is a learning curve to hunting. The skills and etiquette, the due respect for the quarry. Many a lessons learnt in the back garden. Education and individual responsibility are key.

This mess helps no one.
Some of the comments here are sanctimonious and barely veiled attacks on hunting sports. I eat meat, I control vermin, I shoot stuff. I am responsible and hold all life in high regard. Please don't tell me what I can and can't do. "You" do not hold the moral high ground, in fact many of these anti hunting beliefs are weird.

I'm sick of KFC Conservationists as found on BBC Wildlife Watch.

I think there's a massive difference between stalking deer, and offing a magpie off the bird feeder or lawn.

You're probably right in that shooting quarry may become more 'professional'. I'm not sure that though for the most part it isn't. DSC & cleared land etc demand it. (I haven't shot game so can't comment) But I don't think that is what CP's thrust is at and so far I've not seen an argument supported that it isn't. He lives up the road from me. I'm sure he's acutely aware of what happens in the local area in regards to shooting. FWIW he's not happy about the ponies. I think if he was going for shooting he'd not have stopped off on the way to take a swipe at the ponies.

[223AI]

Apologies, I missed that.

I don't shoot deer.

I have in the past done plenty of pest control. I don't anymore as I have no need to.

There is plenty of deer culling done around here on a permanent basis. Being able to shoot deer is a by product of herd management, it's not done because they occasionally nibble ornamental plants. Deer proof enclosures (as used around here) solve that (which is what they are in part used for) The diet of deer is wide and varied and picking one element out is like picking one bird out and saying that needs balancing.

There's no legitimate need to control birds or deer in your garden. The GL didn't cover that. Nothing has changed in that respect.
The GL didn't cover game either. Nothing has changed there.
It also doesn't cover deer. Nothing has changed there.

I'm not sure what point you're arguing against because so far you've objected to things that aren't changed by the GL being revoked.

For those with legitimate pest control businesses or needs I can see this being a royal pain in the backside and the hope is that it's sorted their favour soon.

It was in response to your point that predators should be allowed to predate, deer should be allowed to feed to.

You are clearly clueless about the real world of deer stalking, deer control and pest control.

There is benefit to removing pest species that are scheduled on the GLs under any circumstances as their populations need to be controlled.

Personally I carry out legitimate pest, predator and deer control for 6 landowners over 6000+ acres, rape and spring drilling’s are being hit hard, we have a good population of grey partridge ( which as you probably know are on the red list) and plenty of songbirds all of which can now not be protected. I do this in my spare time on top of a fairly demanding job and family commitments. Even if I had time to fill out 25-35 licence applications how quickly do you think NE will get through the hundreds of thousands of applications? Particularly if they have to do a site visit to satisfy themselves non lethal methods are not plausible!

It is an absolute farce and will be the detriment of wildlife and farming it won’t be sorted any time soon unless NE can reword to come over the issue, but apparently according to yourself and a few others on this thread it is ok as a few less pigeons and magpies will be shot in peoples’ gardens!

They should have waited until the licences were to be renewed in January at the very least

[223AI]

My point exactly and well put, Paul.

If folks can’t have a civil discussion then this course of debate will go nowhere.

If people who don’t really know what thy are talking about, or who are blind to packham’s agenda, or don’t actually shoot live quarry feel they know best it won’t go anywhere either!

This is a major issue for some of us who actually rely on these licences. The rest of you sat there pontificating from your keyboards are fixed on the very small and insignificant issue and clearly happy to see legal shooting activities stopped.

[223AI]

I think there's a massive difference between stalking deer, and offing a magpie off the bird feeder or lawn.

You're probably right in that shooting quarry may become more 'professional'. I'm not sure that though for the most part it isn't. DSC & cleared land etc demand it. (I haven't shot game so can't comment) But I don't think that is what CP's thrust is at and so far I've not seen an argument supported that it isn't. He lives up the road from me. I'm sure he's acutely aware of what happens in the local area in regards to shooting. FWIW he's not happy about the ponies. I think if he was going for shooting he'd not have stopped off on the way to take a swipe at the ponies.

DSC is not a legal requirement and cleared land is only necessary commensurate to the applicant’s experience. If all field shooting goes the professional route expect your food costs to increase, a lot!

[RobF]

If people who don’t really know what thy are talking about, or who are blind to packham’s agenda, or don’t actually shoot live quarry feel they know best it won’t go anywhere either!

This is a major issue for some of us who actually rely on these licences. The rest of you sat there pontificating from your keyboards are fixed on the very small and insignificant issue and clearly happy to see legal shooting activities stopped.

If you rely on GL for legitimate pest control you have my sympathy. But so far you've only cited examples of things the GL didn't allow, or things the GL doesn't cover.

Perhaps if you can give an example of how this actually affects your legitimate pest control then it would move things forward.

[223AI]

If you rely on GL for legitimate pest control you have my sympathy. But so far you've only cited examples of things the GL didn't allow, or things the GL doesn't cover.

Perhaps if you can give an example of how this actually affects your legitimate pest control then it would move things forward.

I don’t need to move things forward on a forum! I have given examples above of the issues that are being faced by one and all who rely on these licences; protection of the nests of largest population of grey partridge that I have seen since my teens, protection of rape crops that are being decimated, protection of maize drilling’s to name a few.

[RobF]

I don’t need to move things forward on a forum! I have given examples above of the issues that are being faced by one and all who rely on these licences; protection of the nests of largest population of grey partridge that I have seen since my teens, protection of rape crops that are being decimated, protection of maize drilling’s to name a few.

That's a long stretch from you stating how corvids in the garden are a problem, which was your first response.

I'll leave it to Portzy's response which seems like the thing worth doing.

[223AI]

That's a long stretch from you stating how corvids in the garden are a problem, which was your first response.

I'll leave it to Portzy's response which seems like the thing worth doing.

Corvids in a garden are a problem, they prey on the local nesting birds, it’s no different!

[Dagwood]

Perhaps those who shoot corvids and pigeons have shot themselves in the foot by the constant stream of photos that many of them post in various forums. All they do is supply grounds for those antis who would stop any shooting of game and vermin.
I'm sure that all law abiding members will adhere to the new legislation and that nothing will be shot from now on, or if it is that forum members will realise that trying to post photos on websites will do nothing more than make antis try and tighten up whatever the new legislation allows.
Of course the moderators would delete such photos asap otherwise they could be accused of aiding and abetting lawbreakers.
Time will show whether this change in the law is a good thing or needs repealing and no doubt the RSPB , who seem to have been quiet for now, will publish data to show the effect on songbirds. They seem to have been sitting on the fence when it comes to magpie numbers being controlled but perhaps if and when songbird populations start declining they will change their position on this.
Time will tell.
Jim

[short-carabine]

The pin to burst your bubble is that if it was all about votes there would have been no need for it to be taken to court, they could have just revoked them when he phoned them up and told them what a wonderful vote winning idea he'd come up with. :rollseyes

Having read up on this today, particularly the actual case that was being brought, I accept I was wrong As I understand it, the GLs have been temporarily revoked while NE gets its house in order. The case to be brought was that NE was issuing licences that were not IAW UK law...so NE are temporarily suspending until they can make sure they are...or change them if they are not. NE appears to be chronically underfunded and may have been "winging it" a bit https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8646941.html . It was interesting to see that they had (although I don't know the precise details" issued specific licences for Robins, a wren's nest that "constituted a threat to public safety", peregrines, owls etc. NE wouldn't be suspending the GLs if they were cast iron and UK law compliant, so it looks like there is at least doubt if they are.

[Muskett]

I don't post photos but think everyone should. Every chicken slaughtered. Every Lamb. Every fish caught. Then people will realises that taking the bounty given us is normal.

Hunting is normal.

Not hunting, and expecting your supermarket shelves full of great food stuffs is abnormal. Detached from what it takes. The zillions of slugs killed to ensure cereal crops, and all that insect life just wiped out so food prices are low.

KFC Conservationists make me sick. They want it all and stuff themselves with utter junk from TV personalities that have never got their hands dirty.
What is weird is this alienation of the natural world. Domestdos'd sanitised uselessness. Yes there are issued like the plasticised wet wipes that they wipe their arses with.

On the subject of "professionals" when wildlife management just becomes an industry and all the love and care lost. Respect goes out of the window and it becomes just another job. Eventually it just ends up as the cheapest option with little thought given. Nothing put back.
£1,000 for each Badger culled! Why? Just stick them on an open license for a few years and it would be free. Only those that felt the need would get involved.

Corvids in numbers can trash an arable field fast.
(Funny I don't shoot the Jackdoors in my garden that are presently pecking up my lawn. I have a good twenty or so, watched and been entertained by them for years. But in the fields they get whacked.
Magpies always, anywhere, get clobbered. I don't shoot hares anymore because the numbers aren't there. We need more people stalking deer as numbers in some parts are far too high. There is a lot to be done and all this political bureaucracy is stopping good management; stopping people getting involved and interested in what is happening in the countryside.)

Lastly, taking a rat, rabbit, magpie, deer, wild boar, or even a pigeon are all the same. No difference. If you are the one to do it do it with thought and respect. The vast majority of Hunters give and have that.

[223AI]

I don't post photos but think everyone should. Every chicken slaughtered. Every Lamb. Every fish caught. Then people will realises that taking the bounty given us is normal.

Hunting is normal.

Not hunting, and expecting your supermarket shelves full of great food stuffs is abnormal. Detached from what it takes. The zillions of slugs killed to ensure cereal crops, and all that insect life just wiped out so food prices are low.

KFC Conservationists make me sick. They want it all and stuff themselves with utter junk from TV personalities that have never got their hands dirty.
What is weird is this alienation of the natural world. Domestdos'd sanitised uselessness. Yes there are issued like the plasticised wet wipes that they wipe their arses with.

On the subject of "professionals" when wildlife management just becomes an industry and all the love and care lost. Respect goes out of the window and it becomes just another job. Eventually it just ends up as the cheapest option with little thought given. Nothing put back.
£1,000 for each Badger culled! Why? Just stick them on an open license for a few years and it would be free. Only those that felt the need would get involved.

Corvids in numbers can trash an arable field fast.
(Funny I don't shoot the Jackdoors in my garden that are presently pecking up my lawn. I have a good twenty or so, watched and been entertained by them for years. But in the fields they get whacked.
Magpies always, anywhere, get clobbered. I don't shoot hares anymore because the numbers aren't there. We need more people stalking deer as numbers in some parts are far too high. There is a lot to be done and all this political bureaucracy is stopping good management.)

Lastly, taking a rat, rabbit, magpie, deer, wild boar, or even a pigeon are all the same. No difference. If you are the one to do it do it with thought and respect. The vast majority of Hunters give and have that.

Amen Brother!!

Rings landed

[sandyman1963]

Thank god I logged on tonight I’m picking up a second hand rifle tomorrow and had planned on shooting it on my permission on the way back as it’s due for a visit.

It’s sad when social media influencers affect people that actually do good by controlling pests.

There are cowboys out there who think that just by owning an air rifle that they can shoot what and where they want. Will this stop them no will it affect the normal every day man that does it to help the environment yes it will.

Good honest land management will go out of the window if this keeps happening chip chip chip each year.