Packham gets General License revoked!!!!

[bighit]

Pretty much all of the shooting org’s have stated that the new GLs are not fit for purpose! Pretty much because of the wording I have posted above!!

Something to do with Wales banning game shooting on publicly owned land maybe, making them less of a target?

Could be . They could be searching to find exploits in the other Nations general licenses .

I know from some of the SAC's reports they say they are heavily involved in the general license drafts up here and help them get them up to scratch .

Not sure if BASC or the others are involved in the final drafts in the English ones . If not them maybe they should be making sure they are involved and they could avert any challenges in the future .

[223AI]

Could be . They could be searching to find exploits in the other Nations general licenses .

I know from some of the SAC's reports they say they are heavily involved in the general license drafts up here and help them get them up to scratch .

Not sure if BASC or the others are involved in the final drafts in the English ones . If not them maybe they should be making sure they are involved and they could avert any challenges in the future .

Is that likely with Tony Juniper in charge? I’d suggest not

[bighit]

Is that likely with Tony Juniper in charge? I’d suggest not

If the shooting organisations have any input then they can head it off if they think it's not going to work . It should not be one sided in the planning .
I don't think Natural England will be the ones to give the final sign off after this incident .

It may have to go higher than than them to get signed off .

[Muskett]

bighit, you still haven't answered the question. I know the law says no, but would it really matter if the law didn't put people in a position where they can't use one reason but could another for the same result?

As the law stands its not fit for purpose.
Everyone is hoping that pretty swiftly the law is changed so it reflects more closely what everyone has been doing for years. What was being done for years seemed to have worked without making everyone out as a potential criminal.

As for Mr Seagull shooter, he shouldn't have used an air pistol; he should have used a non lethal 6mm airsoft pistol. Its a system that works really well as Seagulls are bright and learn fast. (Don't let your BB go beyond your boundary.)

[223AI]

If the shooting organisations have any input then they can head it off if they think it's not going to work . It should not be one sided in the planning .
I don't think Natural England will be the ones to give the final sign off after this incident .

It may have to go higher than than them to get signed off .

It’s gone to DEFRA, many are arguing the org’s should be involved but equally many will now argue that all stakeholders should be involved (like they have for the EFRA review) so this could be counter productive.

Have you read WJ’s latest release which clearly highlights a lot of this is aimed at released game? Not sure we want them at the table

[bighit]

It’s gone to DEFRA, many are arguing the org’s should be involved but equally many will now argue that all stakeholders should be involved (like they have for the EFRA review) so this could be counter productive.

Have you read WJ’s latest release which clearly highlights a lot of this is aimed at released game? Not sure we want them at the table

I'm afraid if the Government wants to get the right balance to stop further challenges they will have to listen to all sides and see what laws they can implement that will work and keep all sides happy .

Im sure they dont want to be spending time and money every time a new challenge comes in from either side .

[Spanner.]

Or grow a pair, the worlds gone bloody mad.

[223AI]

I'm afraid if the Government wants to get the right balance to stop further challenges they will have to listen to all sides and see what laws they can implement that will work and keep all sides happy .

Im sure they dont want to be spending time and money every time a new challenge comes in from either side .

With both sides so diametrically opposed they will never get to a point all sides agree on, I don’t know if you read the link I posted this morning in the end but it was from a conservation group that understands the need for the GLs and the lethal control they allow. These people that should be listened to, not the vehement anti’s who just want shooting stopped, by any means!!

[bighit]

bighit, you still haven't answered the question. I know the law says no, but would it really matter if the law didn't put people in a position where they can't use one reason but could another for the same result? They have given the people their rules on it and if the person that wants to use lethal methods can give evidence they have tried all the other methods or shown they would be impractical then they can apply for a personal license and it may be issued there and then or they could do what the police do when some has a closed firearms ticket and go and inspect it then decide that the applicant has a valid reason

As the law stands its not fit for purpose. The people that have applied and got one prove that it works for them and could work for almost anyone If they have one then its worked for them true ? [COLOR="#FF0000",]If it did not work then they would not have got one [/COLOR]
Everyone is hoping that pretty swiftly the law is changed so it reflects more closely what everyone has been doing for years. But not the misuse ,surely you can see that ? What was being done for years seemed to have worked without making everyone out as a potential criminal. some have been though . People have been in court and charged for breaking the laws, Again surely you can see that ?

As for Mr Seagull shooter, he shouldn't have used an air pistol; he should have used a non lethal 6mm airsoft pistol. Its a system that works really well as Seagulls are bright and learn fast. (Don't let your BB go beyond your boundary.) He should have tried many other methods too but he chose to shoot it with a firearm . like many others do

The end of the day . If you can't fulfill the full letter of the law on the general license then that's it ,You can't legally do it do it .

You can appeal and they then decide you're need has changed you may get a license to carry out the task.

[223AI]

The end of the day . If you can't fulfill the full letter of the law on the general license then that's it ,You can't legally do it do it .

You can appeal and they then decide you're need has changed you may get a license to carry out the task.

But as we’ve established nobody is really sure what the full letter of the law is currently!

[bighit]

With both sides so diametrically opposed they will never get to a point all sides agree on, I don’t know if you read the link I posted this morning in the end but it was from a conservation group that understands the need for the GLs and the lethal control they allow. These people that should be listened to, not the vehement anti’s who just want shooting stopped, by any means!!

I know that other people other than the shooting organisations and farmers that are against the revocation ,some bird lovers people where the ones posting on the dog show festival that had to cancel Packham due to security issues incase he was attacked or that people would show up in blood like covered bird costumes . They are alo giving the RSPB it tight as Packham is vice president of the RSPB and they were saying it was going to decimate the song birds .

It's not just the shooting organisations or farmers that are up in arms over it believe me I have seen the facebook pages and the people are not happy .

If the NFU , BASC including the other shooting Orgs and the conservation groups in favour of the General License get to sit at the table they can counter Wild justice and the others on their side .

It can't be one sided . If it is then there will be legal challenge after legal challenge for either side .

[bighit]

But as we’ve established nobody is really sure what the full letter of the law is currently!

Again ,some must satisfied the criteria at this time or they would not have got their licenses .

[223AI]

Again ,some must satisfied the criteria at this time or they would not have got their licenses .

No, not really, because just as people can be prosecuted for not following a GL they can be prosecuted for not following a specific licence.

Plus as T20 pointed out this is about the General Licences, not the temporary, stop gap individual licences

[bighit]

No, not really, because just as people can be prosecuted for not following a GL they can be prosecuted for not following a specific licence.

Plus as T20 pointed out this is about the General Licences, not the temporary, stop gap individual licences

If that is the case and you HAVE to use lethal control then you have to apply for it , Simple as that .

It may mean paperwork and time but it is the only option open you at present , Then it's the one you have to take until they sort it out .

Thats it in a nutshell .

[223AI]

If that is the case and you HAVE to use lethal control then you have to apply for it , Simple as that .

It may mean paperwork and time but it is the only option open you at present , Then it's the one you have to take until they sort it out .

Thats it in a nutshell .

I’m not arguing that the individual licences are not the only option for most scenarios previously covered, I don’t really get you point!?