Daystate early electronic rifles - Q&A to a few queries

[Jesim1]

Daystate Electronic rifles - roughly Airwolf/MK4 MCT versions both non screen and screen versions.

This thread is meant to help people with a couple of common questions and issues that several members have contacted me about over the past few months as I've had dozens of these over the years, but I would also add I'm not an expert and have no connection to Daystate in any way, so anything offered is purely my findings at an amateur level and is restricted to basic DIY things to try and think about before you send it off for repair.

I'm not going to give the whole history bit - just Google it, this is just a fast and dirty version - ooeerr missus

Handbooks available here: http://daystate.com/handbooksguides/

1. How reliable are they?

The electronics are generally very reliable, the MK4 versions are based on the MK3 versions and are now tech with at least 15 years+ of history, so they have bee tried and tested and have proven to be very good if not messed with. In a worse case scenario if it's totally toast your looking at a £200+ bill from a specialist or Daystate to put it right - but you would be looking at that for a replacement regulator and service in many guns anyway - so it's not as bad as you may initially think. There are also several people now doing aftermarket boards, but they are a similar price, so I don't see a big advantage for most users without going into the detail.

2. What's electronic in them?

The triggers work like a mouse click, but can be adjusted just like a normal trigger to be heavier as required, super light competition standard is achievable.

There is a solenoid which acts in place of the standard hammer spring of a mechanical rifle, so it's super fast, very consistent and very efficient. In line with this it has a pressure sensor to decide exactly how long to keep the valve open to deliver the right amount of air from any pressure in the cylinder when combined with the strike force from the hammer. For short of a better way to describe it think of it as being electronically regulated. This essentially means it's delivering power through variable valve timing based on the hammer strike force as opposed to a standard mechanical reg which fills to a set pressure and delivers a specific burst of air every time.

Cylinder pressure is displayed in the screen versions along with other data like shot count, the non screen versions do not have a gauge, but you can set the gun to bleep at low pressures which you can set - say 100bar?

The screen versions have a screen, different programs, and are generally easier to deal with as you can see what your doing rather than counting bleeps.

3. What about the battery?

These were originally NiCad or later NiMH batteries and vary in life from a few years to many guns still running on the original ones - and this is 90% of the issues people have - a 10+ year old battery is often very poor, and needs replacing. Daystate do them but they are not cheap: http://daystate.com/product-category/batteries/ You can get a similar (or higher mAh to extend life - I'd suggest around 1000 size) from hobby battery firms who will make them for you for a good bit less - Google is your friend!

Best advice is to charge them overnight for a minimum 12hrs every couple of months regardless of use, but avoid leaving them to “run out” as this can kill them.

4. Accuracy?

Very good, but varies gun to gun and pellet to pellet like all guns, expect 5p size groups of 10 shots being easily achieved indoors at 30m and 20p sized ones at 50m with a good shooter.

5. Shot count?

Typically 450+ shots in the Airwolf and 150+ shots in the MK4 in .177 - I don't do .22, but expect slightly more. Guns have a SWP (suggested working pressure) sticker on them, but many of the e - rifles fill to 230bar and run down to about 90bar.

6. Which pellets?

All big brands work well in every gun I've tried, and that is dozens, but the usually fall back pellets for me are: Sovereigns, JSB Exacts 4.52/4.53, AAFD, H&NFTT

7. Servicing?

All the usually stuff is serviceable by a normal person who knows their way round a PCP, so a leak is no different from any other gun. It's only the electronic bits that scare people, but 99% of electronic issues are sorted by a new battery, so you would have to be really unlucky to get a £200+ repair bill.

8. Power settings.

See programs for the non screen version – the screen versions tend to have three power settings with roughly a 1.5fpe spread, but it can be more on the earlier rifles. The guns I’ve used would typically be running around 11.6/7fpe with JSB heavies on Hi power (11.2/3 with 8.44gn), but every gun is different, and to me anything hitting high 10s is perfectly fine with light pellets as the heavies will lift it over 11 and then you start looking at temperatures etc……. which is a whole different thread! But a word of warning also, you cannot easily change the power on these without specialist equipment, so if you’re looking at a gun doing 10pfe at its maximum setting – walk away unless your happy at that!

9. Programs

The screen and non screen versions are different, and even then some of the earlier non screen versions (pre MCT) had different versions??? It's not an issue with the screen versions as you can see what you’re doing on the screen, but the non screen versions can be a best guess, especially as I found some of the details from Daystate were incorrect on the rifles I had - go figure?? So I've put the correct one for a non screen MCT version below:

A guide to the Mk4/Airwolf MCT settings:

1 Bleep

Resets the shot counter for the magazine

2 Bleeps

Turns the safety catch light on and off - 1 bleep off, 2 bleeps on

3 Bleeps

Turns the magazine shot counter on/off - 1 bleep on, 2 bleeps off

4 Bleeps

Low pressure warning. The warning can be set from 50BAR+. each trigger pull adds 10BAR to the level at which the warning goes off

5 Bleeps

Power adjustment. Each trigger pull reduces the power 1 stage of 16 increments

6 Bleeps

Single shot mode

7 Beeps

Reset to factory defaults

10. My stock rattles?

Particular to the MK4/is and some Regals - the fore end of the gun can rattle in connection to the cylinder – it’s an easy fix with a couple of small strips of foam tape placed inside the stock at the fore end – job done.

I hope this goes some way to helping folks out with some basic information and issues with these guns which on the whole are great guns and not something to be scared of.

Thanks

James

[T 20]

A very useful thread, James.

I shall eventually move this to the "Shooting Tips" section.




All the best Mick

[MartynB]

I don't own one of these but it makes very interesting reading none the less

[Jesim1]

A very useful thread, James.

I shall eventually move this to the "Shooting Tips" section.

All the best Mick

Thanks Mick

I've had three queries about these rifles this year as people know I've had a lot of Daystates, so figured this may help sort a few queries for people just searching for common issues on the early guns. As mentioned, it's really rare to get one of these guns running "rough", they tend to either work or not, and even then 9/10 times it's sorted by replacing a 10 year old battery

James

[Hawkeye20]

Very good read and well explained, I don't get why so many people are scared of the electronics going wrong. I myself have never had a problem and I have owned many electronic daystate. I have known them to go wrong but that was when the MK3 first come out. Im actually just about to buy my second airwolf mvt and have looked up the serial number to get a general idea if it has been problematic and that's the beauty about having that to turn to just incase you go buy a second hand daystate.

[sandyman1963]

Daystate Electronic rifles - roughly Airwolf/MK4 MCT versions both non screen and screen versions.

This thread is meant to help people with a couple of common questions and issues that several members have contacted me about over the past few months as I've had dozens of these over the years, but I would also add I'm not an expert and have no connection to Daystate in any way, so anything offered is purely my findings at an amateur level and is restricted to basic DIY things to try and think about before you send it off for repair.

I'm not going to give the whole history bit - just Google it, this is just a fast and dirt version - ooeerr missus

Handbooks available here: http://daystate.com/handbooksguides/

1. How reliable are they?

The electronics are generally very reliable, the MK4 versions are based on the MK3 versions and are now tech with at least 15 years+ of history, so they have bee tried and tested and have proven to be very good if not messed with. In a worse case scenario if it's totally toast your looking at a £200+ bill from a specialist or Daystate to put it right - but you would be looking at that for a replacement regulator and service in many guns anyway - so it's not as bad as you may initially think. There are also several people now doing aftermarket boards, but they are a similar price, so I don't see a big advantage for most users without going into the detail.

2. What's electronic in them?

The triggers work like a mouse click, but can be adjusted just like a normal trigger to be heavier as required, super light competition standard is achievable.

There is a solenoid which acts in place of the standard hammer spring of a mechanical rifle, so it's super fast, very consistent and very efficient. In line with this it has a pressure sensor to decide exactly how long to keep the valve open to deliver the right amount of air from any pressure in the cylinder when combined with the strike force from the hammer. For short of a better way to describe it think of it as being electronically regulated. This essentially means it's delivering power through variable valve timing based on the hammer strike force as opposed to a standard mechanical reg which fills to a set pressure and delivers a specific burst of air every time.

Cylinder pressure is displayed in the screen versions along with other data like shot count, the non screen versions do not have a gauge, but you can set the gun to bleep at low pressures which you can set - say 100bar?

The screen versions have a screen, different programs, and are generally easier to deal with as you can see what your doing rather than counting bleeps.

3. What about the battery?

These were originally NiCad or later NiMH batteries and vary in life from a few years to many guns still running on the original ones - and this is 90% of the issues people have - a 10+ year old battery is often very poor, and needs replacing. Daystate do them but they are not cheap: http://daystate.com/product-category/batteries/ You can get a similar (or higher mAh to extend life - I'd suggest around 1000 size) from hobby battery firms who will make them for you for a good bit less - Google is your friend!

Best advice is to charge them overnight for a minimum 12hrs every couple of months regardless of use, but avoid leaving them to “run out” as this can kill them.

4. Accuracy?

Very good, but varies gun to gun and pellet to pellet like all guns, expect 5p size groups of 10 shots being easily achieved indoors at 30m and 20p sized ones at 50m with a good shooter.

5. Shot count?

Typically 450+ shots in the Airwolf and 150+ shots in the MK4 in .177 - I don't do .22, but expect slightly more. Guns have a SWP (suggested working pressure) sticker on them, but many of the e - rifles fill to 230bar and run down to about 90bar.

6. Which pellets?

All big brands work well in every gun I've tried, and that is dozens, but the usually fall back pellets for me are: Sovereigns, JSB Exacts 4.52/4.53, AAFD, H&NFTT

7. Servicing?

All the usually stuff is serviceable by a normal person who knows there way round a PCP, so a leak is no different from any other gun. It's only the electronic bits that scare people, but 99% of electronic issues are sorted by a new battery, so you would have to be really unlucky to get a £200+ repair bill.

8. Power settings.

See programs for the non screen version – the screen versions tend to have three power settings around 1.5fpe apart. The guns I’ve used would typically be running around 11.6/7fpe with JSB heavies on Hi power (11.2/3 with 8.44gn), but every gun is different, and to me anything hitting high 10s is perfectly fine with light pellets as the heavies will lift it over 11 and then you start looking at temperatures etc……. which is a whole different thread! But a word of warning also, you cannot easily change the power on these without specialist equipment, so if you’re looking at a gun doing 10pfe at its maximum setting – walk away unless your happy at that!

9. Programs

The screen and non screen versions are different, and even then some of the earlier non screen versions (pre MCT) had different versions??? It's not an issue with the screen versions as you can see what you’re doing on the screen, but the non screen versions can be a best guess, especially as I found some of the details from Daystate were incorrect on the rifles I had - go figure?? So I've put the correct one for a non screen MCT version below:

A guide to the Mk4/Airwolf MCT settings:

1 Bleep

Resets the shot counter for the magazine

2 Bleeps

Turns the safety catch light on and off - 1 bleep off, 2 bleeps on

3 Bleeps

Turns the magazine shot counter on/off - 1 bleep on, 2 bleeps off

4 Bleeps

Low pressure warning. The warning can be set from 50BAR+. each trigger pull adds 10BAR to the level at which the warning goes off

5 Bleeps

Power adjustment. Each trigger pull reduces the power 1 stage of 16 increments

6 Bleeps

Single shot mode

7 Beeps

Reset to factory defaults

10. My stock rattles?

Particular to the MK4/is and some Regals - the fore end of the gun can rattle in connection to the cylinder – it’s an easy fix with a couple of small strips of foam tape placed inside the stock at the fore end – job done.

I hope this goes some way to helping folks out with some basic information and issues with these guns which on the whole are great guns and not something to be scared of.

Thanks

James

Well done James a very useful post. I always forget what the beeps mean on my TimberWolf I wish DS has put a LCD Screen on it/

[madcarlos]

I've had a early air wolf and the mk3 , The mk3 was the most consistent gun I've ever shot, 9 out of 10 pellets were identical reading on my skan chronograph, I bought the both above as non working , Also the air wolf was leaking and had accuracy problems, Phoned around about 6 gun shops, All said same thing, Back to daystate , Even replacing the batteries on my mk3 none of the gun shops could help except from sending back to daystate, I would say though that speaking to some woman then some chap at daystate plus having a go myself I managed to sort both guns out with very little cost to myself, The mk3 is one of the guns I now regret selling, Anyway I have a air ranger which does everything I need and cant fault it, Apart from recent leak which I replaced two seals on the fill port that's the only trouble I've had in the 8 years I've owned it,

[Ducat]

Got a MkIV IST.

Scarily accurate as a BR rifle once you get the stripper set correctly.

You know we've all got those rifles we're never selling? this is one of mine.

[Jesim1]

Got a MkIV IST.

Scarily accurate as a BR rifle once you get the stripper set correctly.

You know we've all got those rifles we're never selling? this is one of mine.

There has to be an awful lot of these rifles out there, and you don't see many for sale, so I'd safely say there are a lot of "keepers" out there

[beatman]

Hi,
I thought you may appreciate a couple of photos of easily the best and most accurate air rifle I have ever owned and shot.
I have owned and shot many during my happy years of shooting at PARC.

THE DAYSTATE GREYSHADOW number 8/150

From My Mobile to May 2017 968.jpg

From My Mobile to May 2017 969.jpg

A Limited Edition of only 150 exist 100x177 & 50x22
They were built following on from the reputation and equally rare Daystate Timbre Wolf.
I only know of/seen/shot one Grey Shadow and one Timbre Wolf. both at Pontefract Air Rifle Club.

If you ever get the opportunity to try either of these incredible rifles, you will be searching trying to track one down. Good Luck !

[IainMAD]

Is there any issues with capacitors ageing or boards having age related dry joints?

Many thanks. iain

[Jesim1]

Is there any issues with capacitors ageing or boards having age related dry joints?

Many thanks. iain

I've heard of a few now, but most are 20 years+ old - so probably better than a lot of regged rifles TBH

[S Hebby]

Is there any issues with capacitors ageing or boards having age related dry joints?

Many thanks. iain

Before I retired last year, I was gunsmithing for a local RFD for about 4 years. In that time I have replaced 3 x MK3 boards. The MK3 boards were then still available from Daystate but unsure if they are now.