Bulk black powder

[Peter Dunkley]

Hi does anyone know the rules for buying black powder and passing it on to mates?
I am aware that the max anyone can keep is 10kilo but if I buy this amount and share it between mates who all of course have black powder licences. DO I HAVE TO KEEP A RECORD OF THEIR CERTS? i KNOW WHEN i BUY A RECORD IS KEPT BY THE SELLER BUT DOES THIS ONLY APLY TO COMMERCIAL SELLERS . ie. Mr Krank and Clay and game.
Thanks.

[Turnup]

I am not aware of any requirement but it would be good practice to do so - no big deal to write down a few details - suggest quantity + name + address + cert no and if really worried have them sign as receiving it.

A member of my ML club drove to the Vesuvit importer (Market Harborough??) and purchased 32 x 1kg tubs of VLC. They assured him that he could transport up to 50 kg in his car with no special arrangements (!). He did have to disburse it all the same day because he could not legally store it, so we all met up in Bisley that evening. He was recording certs but AFAIK he has never been asked to account for that 32kg. As a side note it would have ben even cheaper to purchase it in 16kg bags but none of us fancied dividing it up.

I doubt that you would be in danger of selling by way of trade if it's just some mates.

[Peter Dunkley]

Thanks for that. Seems to be a loophole. What prompted me to ask is that the guy at Clay and Game said Various FEOs did contact him to see who he had sold to. Of course he did not know if they followed up on this information.

[Turnup]

I would not say it was a loophole. They don't hand out explosive licences like sweeties and there is the reasonable expectation that cert holders will act responsibly.

[enfield2band]

I would say it is NOT a loophole either. The FEO's are probably keeping a check on where the powder is going, perhaps to avoid anyone stockpiling it. It did happen at one time. I heard of someone who had a tea chest full of loose powder in their cellar. That was many years ago but it is not impossible for someone to do it even now. A check on where it is going would flag this up and could be prevented.

[tacfoley]

I would say it is NOT a loophole either. The FEO's are probably keeping a check on where the powder is going, perhaps to avoid anyone stockpiling it. It did happen at one time. I heard of someone who had a tea chest full of loose powder in their cellar. That was many years ago but it is not impossible for someone to do it even now. A check on where it is going would flag this up and could be prevented.

Not a 'Guy' called Fawkes, was he?

I thought the figure was 15kg - maybe I'm out of date.

[Turnup]

Not a 'Guy' called Fawkes, was he?

I thought the figure was 15kg - maybe I'm out of date.

I believe you are correct - quantities exceeding that (including smokeless) need to be at a registered explosive store. I also believe that some FEOs limit the quantity to that which can be properly stored if less than 15kg but I am not sure they are actually within their powers to do so,

[enfield2band]

I believe you are correct - quantities exceeding that (including smokeless) need to be at a registered explosive store. I also believe that some FEOs limit the quantity to that which can be properly stored if less than 15kg but I am not sure they are actually within their powers to do so,

The last time I read about this all you had to do to designate your house/property as an explosive store was to contact the council and inform them and inform the local fire brigade so they knew what to expect if called out.

It may have changed but if you do want to classify your property as an explosive store it might be worth checking with the council or fire brigade.

Primers and the powder in loaded ammunition now count towards the maximum weight of stored explosive. I have the figures somewhere I'll see if I can find them.

[DedIdick]

Not a 'Guy' called Fawkes, was he?

I thought the figure was 15kg - maybe I'm out of date.

10 kg black powder and up to another 5 kgs other shooters powder.

[tacfoley]

10 kg black powder and up to another 5 kgs other shooters powder.

According to the MLAGB - 'The maximum Black Powder that an individual can hold is 10 Kg plus 5 Kg of either Black Powder or Shooters Powder (Nitro Powder).' - total 15 Kg.

[DesG]

The rules for acquiring and storing are different to the rules for transporting and indeed are two separate licences which are now combined. Makes the whole question very difficult to answer doesn’t it?

I’ve just read my explosive licence. The only mention of quantity is the amount that may may be kept at the address on my licence. This would indicate that I could acquire and transport as much as i want to but not store it!

If lots of people chipped in and collected on the day the no problem. (probably)

[Peter Dunkley]

I am sure you are correct.
BUT if an FEO saw the large quantity and wanted to be nosey would he require you to account for it's disposal with proof of licence numbers?

[Turnup]

I am sure you are correct.
BUT if an FEO saw the large quantity and wanted to be nosey would he require you to account for it's disposal with proof of licence numbers?

He could ask but unless you are charged with something I doubt that he could require. Remember that they have to prove guilt, you do not have to prove innocence.

[Peter Dunkley]

I suppose you have a point but I would think there would be a danger of removal of your black powder licence. They could give all sort of reasons.
Do they have to charge you when they remove your guns if you have neighbour trouble or a domestic.? I dont think I will risk it.

[Turnup]

I suppose you have a point but I would think there would be a danger of removal of your black powder licence. They could give all sort of reasons.
Do they have to charge you when they remove your guns if you have neighbour trouble or a domestic.? I dont think I will risk it.

They do not have to charge you when temporarily revoking an FAC, but that is because they have been given specific powers in the Firearms act. They can of course require organisations with commercial explosives licences to account for the explosives they purchase but I am not aware that they possess the same powers in respect of private explosives licences. That said I would in fact happily co-operate with any such request (and if I were ever to make a bulk mate's purchase I would personally feel it prudent to record its disposition per my comment in post #2)

WRT revokation of an explosives licence, yes they can give all sorts of reasons, but only reasons which they can back up with facts or strong suspicions and which fall within the powers granted to them in legislation, else face misconduct charges in the event of an appeal. They will have to document their reasons, even if that is not made available to you so it would be very dangerous for them to "trump something up" Failure to disclose the disposition of explosives acquired on <date> when there is no requirement on the licensee to maintain any record will not fly.