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Thread: Air Arms Camargue tap loader

  1. #31
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    Found out from AA the date of my rifle from the serial number. Though they got the type of rifle wrong.

    Details of your rifle are as below:
    Serial Number Model Details Manufactured
    33438 MISTRAL .177 02.12.1986

    Pretty early one. In looking at UTubes all the ones I see have antibear traps. You can hear them clicking. Mine does not you can decock the lever. Must be something they added during production cycle? Anyone have one without the bear trap? Given its a tap loader the anti-bear trap seems a bit overkill but the Webley sidelevers had them too.
    Last edited by 45flint; 07-04-2021 at 02:08 AM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45flint View Post
    Found out from AA the date of my rifle from the serial number. Though they got the type of rifle wrong.

    Details of your rifle are as below:
    Serial Number Model Details Manufactured
    33438 MISTRAL .177 02.12.1986

    Pretty early one. In looking at UTubes all the ones I see have antibear traps. You can hear them clicking. Mine does not you can decock the lever. Must be something they added during production? Anyone have one without the bear trap? Given its a tap loader the anti-bear trap seems a bit overkill but the Webley sidelevers had them too.
    Have they got it wrong or has yours been restocked at some point?
    To my knowledge the woodwork is all interchangeable between the sidelever models.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvey_s View Post
    Have they got it wrong or has yours been restocked at some point?
    To my knowledge the woodwork is all interchangeable between the sidelever models.
    US import can’t imagine it’s been restocked unless at the factory to meet orders?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45flint View Post
    Found out from AA the date of my rifle from the serial number. Though they got the type of rifle wrong.

    Details of your rifle are as below:
    Serial Number Model Details Manufactured
    33438 MISTRAL .177 02.12.1986

    Pretty early one. In looking at UTubes all the ones I see have antibear traps. You can hear them clicking. Mine does not you can decock the lever. Must be something they added during production cycle? Anyone have one without the bear trap? Given its a tap loader the anti-bear trap seems a bit overkill but the Webley sidelevers had them too.
    Regarding the bear trap, these can easily be 'disabled' if the action has not been assembled correctly. If I recall it's when one of the pins has been inserted the wrong side of the safe ratchet spring

    ATB

    Chris
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGerr View Post
    Regarding the bear trap, these can easily be 'disabled' if the action has not been assembled correctly. If I recall it's when one of the pins has been inserted the wrong side of the safe ratchet spring

    ATB

    Chris
    If my research I found several examples on Utube where there was no bear trap. I know mine is as new and has never been taken apart. I have to think it was added as they went along with the development. It is interesting when you think that underlevers with taps loading didn’t have bear traps but you take it to the side and they do? It does seem more awkward to decock?

  6. #36
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    the safety ratchet is simply removed

    the later AA models that were claimed to be 'much improved' simply had a fat rubber oring on one of the pins to reduce the noise of the safety ratchet as it operates on cocking..
    "But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not comprised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed."
    Winston Churchill 1930

  7. #37
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    harvey_s is offline Lost love child of David Niven and Victoria Beckham
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45flint View Post
    If my research I found several examples on Utube where there was no bear trap. I know mine is as new and has never been taken apart. I have to think it was added as they went along with the development. It is interesting when you think that underlevers with taps loading didn’t have bear traps but you take it to the side and they do? It does seem more awkward to decock?
    It's more to do with where the fingers on your free hand will be on a sidelever action...as for decocking - theres nothing easier than a shot at the ground.

  8. #38
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    had one of these great guns years ago had a lovely stock on it

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Gen View Post
    the safety ratchet is simply removed

    the later AA models that were claimed to be 'much improved' simply had a fat rubber oring on one of the pins to reduce the noise of the safety ratchet as it operates on cocking..
    Not sure anyone would care but in taking the stock off and looking at the AA parts diagrams it is easy to see that my ratchet was simply disabled by reassembling with the spring underneath pushing it out of the way. I could change it but I hate the clicking sound and don’t see the safety issues? If the sear fails it’s a tap loader? There is little difference cocking this or my prewar BSA? You instantly return the arm after cocking? Can’t see adding back the noise? Am I missing something? Lawyers can screw up nice designs?
    Last edited by 45flint; 15-04-2021 at 01:24 PM.

  10. #40
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    The safety issue that drove the adoption of ratchets etc on tap-loading sidelevers is that the lever would be accidentally let go of during cocking.

    Unlike the underlever, where the support hand will typically be on the grip or back along the stock, away from the flying lever, there is a very real chance that the support hand fingers on the s/l will end up under the flying lever and get chopped off.

    Sensible gun handling should reduce the risk to very little.

    But even if you have the support hand during cocking in a “safe” position, the torque of the unexpectedly free-flying lever in the scenario above can twist the gun in the hand so that the fingers get in its way. At least for a right-handed user.

    These accidents did happen, with e.g. the early Hammerlis after which many later s/ls were patterned.

    As a general rule, I very strongly disapprove of deleting any built-in safety feature on a gun. The exception being the magazine trigger disconnector on a Browning GP35 and similar pistols. Not because doing so improves the trigger pull and reload (it does) but because I believe it creates at least as many safety issues as the one that it cures.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    The safety issue that drove the adoption of ratchets etc on tap-loading sidelevers is that the lever would be accidentally let go of during cocking.

    Unlike the underlever, where the support hand will typically be on the grip or back along the stock, away from the flying lever, there is a very real chance that the support hand fingers on the s/l will end up under the flying lever and get chopped off.

    Sensible gun handling should reduce the risk to very little.

    But even if you have the support hand during cocking in a “safe” position, the torque of the unexpectedly free-flying lever in the scenario above can twist the gun in the hand so that the fingers get in its way. At least for a right-handed user.

    These accidents did happen, with e.g. the early Hammerlis after which many later s/ls were patterned.

    As a general rule, I very strongly disapprove of deleting any built-in safety feature on a gun. The exception being the magazine trigger disconnector on a Browning GP35 and similar pistols. Not because doing so improves the trigger pull and reload (it does) but because I believe it creates at least as many safety issues as the one that it cures.
    Don’t disagree with canceling safety devices but it’s already been done so it gives me a chance to really look at the issues and how I cock my guns. I’m not a strong guy so I sit the rifle up with the butt stock on my leg or lap. The right hand holds the cocking lever and the left hand grips the end of the stock and barrel. Nothing is under the lever? I cock the BSA Light the same way except there is no stock so my hand is on the barrel. I’m more likely to get bit by the BSA if my holding hand slips down? The AA has a nice vinyl covered handle, far less likely to slip?

    Reading about the early Hammerli rifles it does make me wonder if I should try to repair the bear trap for future owners?
    Last edited by 45flint; 16-04-2021 at 08:34 AM.

  12. #42
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    Final report on my 35 year old Carmargue. Greased the spring through the slot with a spring lube from Air Venturi. Been shooting it quite a bit now. Using a heavier .177 pellet from H&N, Field Target Trophy 8.64 grains. It’s giving me a consistent 11.5 FPE. Right where it should be for a English springer. The heavier pellet is a little quieter for the backyard. My US version has no moderator. Pretty cool for a old springer. Says something about the quality of these rifles. Have 7 unaltered tap loaders in my collection now. Only one I have that is full power. Nothing even close to this. 1/2 inch group from 35 feet.

    Last edited by 45flint; 18-04-2021 at 05:29 PM.

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