Recoiless vs recoiling FWB experiment

[MDriskill]

Anyone remember the 80s ads (Sussex Armoury, I think) for discounted HW55s claiming scientific proof that the pellet had left the barrel before any recoil-induced movement took place?

I always thought they were BS.

This one, LOL...? Silly yes - but wouldn't you like to go back and pick up a few guns and accessories at these prices!

[TonyL]

Thank you for this, chaps. I will have seen this advert at the time but had forgotten all about it. Yes, some far-out claims there, for sure. But what a lovely rifle. And whilst the Feinwerkbau sledge action rifles do still retain character, I know where they're coming from with the "dead feeling" comment as many designs these days (mostly pneumatics, it must be said), although impressive, leave me feeling cold and "unconnected". Talking mainly "sporting" designs here.....

[ptdunk]

Anyone remember the 80s ads (Sussex Armoury, I think) for discounted HW55s claiming scientific proof that the pellet had left the barrel before any recoil-induced movement took place?

I always thought they were BS.

I think that idea may have come from the manufacturer, a 1968 catalogue says the same thing (top right in text):

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Also says same about FWB110,they call it 'delayed recoil', feature no. '4'



I think they recon the pellet is out of the barrel before the piston gets to end of travel, maybe possible if there was enough swept air volume? although you'd still get the initial rearward movement as the spring expands.

Don't know how you'd measure it, other than with a super high speed camera.

This from 1978 shows a few Webley Osprey Supertargets in the mix, one got silver.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

as Geezer said it would be interesting to see some 1960's result lists.

Cheers,
Matt

[Geezer]

I think that idea may have come from the manufacturer, a 1968 catalogue says the same thing (top right in text):

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Also says same about FWB110,they call it 'delayed recoil', feature no. '4'



I think they recon the pellet is out of the barrel before the piston gets to end of travel, maybe possible if there was enough swept air volume? although you'd still get the initial rearward movement as the spring expands.

Don't know how you'd measure it, other than with a super high speed camera.

This from 1978 shows a few Webley Osprey Supertargets in the mix, one got silver.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

as Geezer said it would be interesting to see some 1960's result lists.

Cheers,
Matt

Thanks for that. Kudos to Mr Taylor getting so high up with an Osprey.

Also note the 1968 comment about scores improving over the previous five years - exactly when the recoilless rifles started making their mark. Not, I think, a total coincidence.

[Garvin]

"A by-product of this delayed recoil sequence is almost total silence on firing a result of the air-flow principle."

Sounds like dishonest cobblers to me! Or maybe they believed this twaddle (surely it was actually nonsense?).

[ptdunk]

"A by-product of this delayed recoil sequence is almost total silence on firing a result of the air-flow principle."

Sounds like dishonest cobblers to me! Or maybe they believed this twaddle (surely it was actually nonsense?).

Definitely a load of flannel….

To be fair ‘Air rifle headquarters’ was an American catalogue written by Ian Law, I think he was trying to convince Americans of the advantage of airguns over firearms, in comparison they probably were a bit quieter. Nothing to do with the ‘delayed recoil’ though…He mentions the ‘virtual silence’ of airguns a lot actually, as well as the accuracy and also the revelation that they don’t produce any smoke!

Matt

[Garvin]

You might find these scans, which tell the story when ARH went belly up in the early '80s (apparently their finances weren't helped by the generous terms they offered customers), interesting Matt:

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....ers/#post-5021

[ptdunk]

You might find these scans, which tell the story when ARH went belly up in the early '80s (apparently their finances weren't helped by the generous terms they offered customers), interesting Matt:

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....ers/#post-5021

Thanks Danny,
seems like ARH got the U.S airgun ball rolling, and Beeman ran with it? ... fair enough.
Beemans 1982 'Safari' to all the German airgun Factories sounds like my dream Holiday.

Will try and have a wander round Zella Mehlis one day...

Cheers,
Matt

[Geezer]

seems like ARH got the U.S airgun ball rolling, and Beeman ran with it?

Cheers,
Matt

That’s about right, though it was (your earlier post) Robert Law, not Ian Law, who was, IIRC, a British FT shooter.

[ptdunk]

That’s about right, though it was (your earlier post) Robert Law, not Ian Law, who was, IIRC, a British FT shooter.

Of course…
I have been leafing through old 80’s issues of Airgunner, so that’s probably where that came from.

Incidentally a gentleman spotted his name in that 1979 results list, so the booklet is winging it’s way to him by way of a memento.

Cheers,
Matt

[Geezer]

Of course…
I have been leafing through old 80’s issues of Airgunner, so that’s probably where that came from.

Incidentally a gentleman spotted his name in that 1979 results list, so the booklet is winging it’s way to him by way of a memento.

Cheers,
Matt

That’s very nice to hear, Matt.

[Drew451]

Very interesting and surprising to see the Webleys mixing it with the German marques. The lack of Walthers also surprising.
Not surprising to see the Haenel 311in there: a very good and accurate air rifle. Underrated and quite possibly unknown to the vast majority.
I think the Feinwerkbau 300 was the go to rifle for vatious reasons. It was undoubtedly a great rifle with good manufacturer/ importer representation at big competitions and it was also perceived as the gun to have. Feinwerkbau are primarily a target gun manufacturer while Diana made everything from a £30 tin plate plinker through to a match rifle and nearly everything in between. Perhaps that hurt their image a bit back then.

[dvd]

Looking at the 1978 result, 3 shooters were using non German guns, I think the 4th placed shooter must also be commended for overcoming the psychological hurdle of knowing he was up against FWB and Diana which were then the benchmark of technical excellence.
I think that FWB were also perceived as being fully focussed on producing a single competitive gun rather than the more diverse offerings from Diana, which were also more difficult to service.
I presume the Diana's indicated as mod.175, were in fact the mod 75.