Hubertus Rifle interesting internal numbering

[45flint]

Decided to take apart the Hubertus rifle that I acquired last month to tighten and grease the breech latch. It was interesting to see all the parts numbered #1. Don’t know if this really is serial number 1 or batch numbers?
But since its my rifle I’ll interpret this as rifle #1. Lol. What are your thoughts?

[Garvin]

Decided to take apart the Hubertus rifle that I acquired last month to tighten and grease the breech latch. It was interesting to see all the parts numbered #1. Don’t know if this really is serial number 1 or batch numbers?
But since its my rifle I’ll interpret this as rifle #1. Lol. What are your thoughts?

Hmm. Where it has 1 with a . it looks like the . is a maker's mark where two parts have to be fitted with each other. The 1 without the . could be a serial number. I suppose my experience with the Falke underlevers, where I recorded several examples of 'serial no.1' has made me a bit skeptical about their uniqueness.

[Faerie]

I wonder if they're assembly numbers, used to re-match parts if (for example) a gun is assembled "in the white" then stripped down to be sent for blueing before being reassembled and made ready for sale ?

[45flint]

Hmm. Where it has 1 with a . it looks like the . is a maker's mark where two parts have to be fitted with each other. The 1 without the . could be a serial number. I suppose my experience with the Falke underlevers, where I recorded several examples of 'serial no.1' has made me a bit skeptical about their uniqueness.

That is fascinating about the “.” I never noticed them. That was worth the post. I actually share your skepticism. But Hubertus had serial numbers on their pistols. Why would they not do the same for their rifles? Would be interesting if we could get inside the few others that are out there?

[frakor]

Will have a look when I am home again.

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Frank

[45flint]

Will have a look when I am home again.

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Frank

That will be fasinating.

[frakor]

Mine has number "59" without any gunsmiths mark, such as your "." .


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Frank

[45flint]

Mine has number "59" without any gunsmiths mark, such as your "." .


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Frank

Was it marked with 59 in all the same places?

[frakor]

Presume it is, but did not take it out of the stock.
This number was on the bottom of the barrel block.

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Frank

[45flint]

Presume it is, but did not take it out of the stock.
This number was on the bottom of the barrel block.

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Frank

Do me a favor and pull the breech lever up and look underneath and see if you see a 59? My #1 can be seen when it’s pulled up. I guess irrespective of what you find a #59 to me may give a good indication of how few are out there. Plus the rifles would have to have survived WW2?

[frakor]

Yes, it has "59" on the breech lever.

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Frank

[45flint]

Yes, it has "59" on the breech lever.

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Frank

Thanks for your confirmation. To me that certainly makes me lean to these numbers as serial numbers no matter how skeptical Danny gets. Lol. Anyway too much fun thinking you got serial #1. It would be treat if any more of these show up and to get looks at their numbering. Lastly I have had discussions with Danny about whether this rifle is prewar from Suhl or post War. To me there is little doubt that it is late contemporary with the Suhl pistol and was just a commercial flop. I have had discussion with several major German collectors who never really doubted the Suhl origin.

[Garvin]

Thanks for your confirmation. To me that certainly makes me lean to these numbers as serial numbers no matter how skeptical Danny gets. Lol. Anyway too much fun thinking you got serial #1. It would be treat if any more of these show up and to get looks at their numbering. Lastly I have had discussions with Danny about whether this rifle is prewar from Suhl or post War. To me there is little doubt that it is late contemporary with the Suhl pistol and was just a commercial flop. I have had discussion with several major German collectors who never really doubted the Suhl origin.

Suhl was the East German gunmaking area after the war too.

[45flint]

Suhl was the East German gunmaking area after the war too.

Your comment of continuing skepticism got me thinking that I have a copy of the definitive book on airguns of Suhl and Zella-Mehlis and this book has extensive coverage of the airguns after the War.



Well it is in German so I just started leafing through it looking for any mention of Hubertus (there was none) or a gun that was similar. Guess what I found, the Model 53 which was used in the Gallery to describe the Hubertus rifle. That came from the German seller I believe and has carried forward. Given the rifle never shows up no reason to question it really. But the “53” I think gave rise to the post war theory? Below is the Model 53 from the book and when I saw it I absolute thought I found the Hubertus. The profile is at first glance very similar. It is made in post war Suhl, but this is a totally different gun as you see from the details of the breech lock. I wonder if the seller of the Gallery rifle saw this rifle in this book or another and thought he had identified the rifle. The only identification of Hubertus as the 53 is in the Gallery.

I interesting side note when I asked the German collectors on Facebook about my rifle, one said it’s the model 53. I asked him how he knew that and he posts the section from the Gallery. The power of the internet!