Pinfire Pistol

[Peter Dunkley]

Can anyone guide me to the legality of owning a Pinfire pistol replica please? The one I have seen is an exact copy of a 1845 French double barrel drop down trigger pinfire pistol. sorry no pictures. the gun is so exact a copy it could be taken for real except it's not steel and it's parts have been cast and not machined. The gun works as a real one would and the hammer springs are good. Bore is about .410 size and the bores are not polished. Any advice please.

[Turnup]

I believe that pinfires, being an obsolete cartridge, are exempt certification but the position regarding a replica is less clear.

Consider: A genuiine antique muzzle loader kept as an antique or curiosity and not fired needs no certification, but a replica is an S1 firearm unless it has been properly de-activated.

The situation is further complicated by the apparent fact that item in question would probably disintegrate if actually fired but this might not necessarily be a factor. A (now deceased) shooting colleague of mine had properlly certified S1 firearms. He also had a really badly corroded 12 bore shotgun wall hanger. I have seen the item and trust me there is no way it would survive being fired. Never-the-less a zealous FEO noticed it on his wall and the upshot was removal of all his guns and revokation of his FAC. It was some years (3 or 5) before he was able to regain his FAC.

This is a problematic area and might need a court case to set a precedent!

[loiner1965]

I believe that pinfires, being an obsolete cartridge, are exempt certification but the position regarding a replica is less clear.

Consider: A genuiine antique muzzle loader kept as an antique or curiosity and not fired needs no certification, but a replica is an S1 firearm unless it has been properly de-activated.

The situation is further complicated by the apparent fact that item in question would probably disintegrate if actually fired but this might not necessarily be a factor. A (now deceased) shooting colleague of mine had properlly certified S1 firearms. He also had a really badly corroded 12 bore shotgun wall hanger. I have seen the item and trust me there is no way it would survive being fired. Never-the-less a zealous FEO noticed it on his wall and the upshot was removal of all his guns and revokation of his FAC. It was some years (3 or 5) before he was able to regain his FAC.

This is a problematic area and might need a court case to set a precedent!

if its a modern replica made after 1939 ( not sure of exact year ) even if obsolete cal then its sec 1.
i could own legally a remington 1858 revolver as its sec 58 etc but if i own which i do a pietta 1858 (remington clone but modern ) then its sec 1

[Peter Dunkley]

Thanks for the replies. I see it is not wise to own this pistol. I will give it a miss.

[steve medlock]

Genuine antique pinfire pistols are not too expensive and can be a nice collectors item.

I bought a French one recently and just need to make a trigger spring and it will be all in working order again. (but not for shooting obviously)

Steve.

[Racing]

Indeed, i was just about to say...
For various reasons the original pinfire guns are really dirt cheap. To this day.

I believe we´ve seen a SMALL move as far as prices fetched, but.. that´s a SMALL one. If you ask me they´re likely to become part of the "trade" though, seeing where it´s all heading.

Even up here it´s been up for debate as to if these guns are permit exempt or not, our law stating that 1890 is the magic date COUPLED with "not for use with a gas tight cartridge". Now. Issue is that the police seems to think they´re in reign and pinfires are under permit, courts say otherwise..
In short to us it´s a grey zone, i´m all to happy to stay out of to be honest.

That doesn´t detract from the Lefacheux system and so forth being of interest though. Cause it is.. no doubt.
On our law here in Scandinavia on a whole (minor variances) be adviced that in contrast to you guys we´re allowed to use/shoot them too. No "on FAC" needed what so ever, and this brings that picking up blackpowder and primers to run them is just as exempt.

Me i run both ways, shooting both permit and non permit guns buuuuut.. IMO the current legislation is a bit silly and out of date up here. That "not for gas tight cartridge" is just plain BS in my opinion as 1890 kind of sets the limit anyways.
Yeah yeah.. i know. The French handed us "Poudre B" in 1886, the Mle 1886 Lebel and what not... whatever, cause the truth of the matter is that as far as reloading speed (thinking abuse here) as terminal speed.. differences are slight vs the last cry BP guns anyways.

Just take a look at my 8mm Kropatschek (which is a BP gun from the onset) that was mainly run on a diet of smokeless as time progressed. Me OTOH, i would never dream of handing it a diet of jacketed and smokeless, albeit the gun can take it.
That brings that the "standard load" for these as 8*60 is a 250grain pill leaving the snout at inxs of 1700fps. To be compared to the first era Lebel and what not at just a tad over 2000...
Same same i say.

Anyways. On pinfire guns. Get an original i vote. They´re rather cheap, still. About to change though i foresee....

Just be adviced that vs the "pure" blackpowder ML´s and what not the pinfire guns are often pipsqueeks from a performance point of view. Something to at least be aware of..

[Davebean]

if its a modern replica made after 1939 ( not sure of exact year ) even if obsolete cal then its sec 1.
i could own legally a remington 1858 revolver as its sec 58 etc but if i own which i do a pietta 1858 (remington clone but modern ) then its sec 1

Pin fire falls under section 58, black powder is very forgiving unlike nitro pin fire guns will shoot just fine I tube is full of them. In the uk even though the ignition system is obsolete you can’t put them on a section 1 and shoot them in a club because they are not muzzle loading and use a self contained cartridge