Reply With QuoteNever even heard of these before...
Very interested in how these turn out.
Presumably intended to be shot from smoothbores?
Love stuff like this... ❤️
Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
Airgun spread-shot pellets were introduced many years ago, but have long been obsolete, and there seems to have been virtually nothing documented about them. Lesley Wesley in his classic book describes them as “…..tiny sticks of chalk. Embedded in the compressed chalk were several (usually six) very tiny shots”. When the chalk stick was fired through the air rifle barrel the compression of the air caused the chalk to disintegrate and the tiny shots were projected from the muzzle.”
As far as I know, none of these shot pellets have survived. Empty boxes are known though, like this one.
I am intrigued to know how these pellets might have performed - such as how much penetration and spread could you get with them at different distances? Could a clay pigeon type of game be devised using them? I currently have a project trying to make some of these pellets for testing, but unfortunately having never seen any in the flesh I am having to work in the dark. It is a long shot, but has anyone seen any of these? Any information about them, such as calibre and approximate length, number of shot, hardness etc., would be very welcome.
Pure guesswork but I have had a go and have now found a chalk formulation that seems to work. These are my first attempts at .177 calibre. Each one contains 12 small lead shot.
If there is any interest I will post the results of my messing about, as my wife delicately puts it.
Lost love child of David Niven and Victoria Beckham
Never even heard of these before...
Very interested in how these turn out.
Presumably intended to be shot from smoothbores?
Love stuff like this... ❤️
Registered User
“Messing about” methodically and then writing it up is how all the best science is done!Originally Posted by ccdjg
I will be very interested to see how these work out.
Do you know roughly when these were available?
How much do your initial .177 samples weigh?
I guess that if the chalk disintegrates in the barrel and then several pellets are ejected then modern chronographs won’t be much good to determine muzzle energy. An old ballistic pendulum might work though.
Registered User
What was that air shotgun that was around in the late 90's?
I think it used a plastic sabo to contain the shot.
What you have there should work but I can see a couple of possible problems:
Depending on the chalk mix if it disintegrates too fast then your "round" will present very little resistance in the bore, which could be a problem for a springer.
The chalk may clog up the rifling grooves.
Since a single well fitting pellet is not allowed above 12ftlbs then it follows that if you have ten projectiles then each can have no more than 1.2ftlbs, minus the power lost accelerating the mass of the chalk. I'd have a weigh of the finished projectile and then weigh the lead shot on their own and you can work out the weight of the chalk.
But do let us know how you get on - it's a fun project and it'll be interesting to see the results on a pop can at short range!
Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
Joe Gilbart in Guns Review 1982 discussed these briefly and disclosed that they were first patented by Lanes Brothers in 1884 (British Patent 11711). John Atkins, in Airgunner, August 2014, then informs us that they were registered as Lanes Patent Shot Cartridges on April 15, 1885, and were introduced onto the market in June of that year. They were evidently made by others over the years (such as by Modarcom, as with the Star brand spread shot pellet box pictured in the original post), but it is not clear when they actually disappeared from the marketplace. I would guess some time well before the second World War.
I have ensured that the pellets have a similar weight to a typical .177 waisted lead pellet. With the chalk they have an average weight of 0.62 grams, and the inner 12 lead shot weighs about 0.58 grams. So the chalk carrier is less than 4% of the total weight.
I am going to try them in a rifled barrel, as I think the rifling might hold back the outer chalk surface of the pellet slightly while the heavier lead shot moves forward, and this will encourage complete disintegration in the barrel. Ideally one would want a choked barrel, but you can't have everything!
Registered User
A little online research indicates that "Modarcom , London" was a factor of ,amongst other things, Young's fishing reels trading from the early 1920s up to the war. I seem to recall Wesley indicating that Lane's "Gem" was used with the chalk shot by bird collectors . Whether this was pre or post WW1 I don't think was specified.Airgun spread-shot pellets were introduced many years ago, but have long been obsolete, and there seems to have been virtually nothing documented about them. Lesley Wesley in his classic book describes them as “…..tiny sticks of chalk. Embedded in the compressed chalk were several (usually six) very tiny shots”. When the chalk stick was fired through the air rifle barrel the compression of the air caused the chalk to disintegrate and the tiny shots were projected from the muzzle.”
As far as I know, none of these shot pellets have survived. Empty boxes are known though, like this one.
I am intrigued to know how these pellets might have performed - such as how much penetration and spread could you get with them at different distances? Could a clay pigeon type of game be devised using them? I currently have a project trying to make some of these pellets for testing, but unfortunately having never seen any in the flesh I am having to work in the dark. It is a long shot, but has anyone seen any of these? Any information about them, such as calibre and approximate length, number of shot, hardness etc., would be very welcome.
Pure guesswork but I have had a go and have now found a chalk formulation that seems to work. These are my first attempts at .177 calibre. Each one contains 12 small lead shot.
If there is any interest I will post the results of my messing about, as my wife delicately puts it.
Twelve shot must surely be better than six - assuming LW wasn't talking through his hat !
Well done for having a go yourself. Please let us know how your experiments go.
ATB Mark
Registered User
Very interesting project, what rifle or pistol are you going to use? I suppose a full power sub 12ftlbs rifle would give you the most bang for your buck.
Not sure what you could use for clay's. Off the top of my head I'd suggest using upside down silicone bowl lids as moulds and pour in some thin layers of plaster or jesmonite.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silicone-St...84304895&psc=1
The various sizes would give you options for what can be hit. No idea what to use as a launcher, other than a jury rigged catapult of wood and bungees. Maybe get someone to roll them along the floor, from behind the firing line of course, or hang them from a sloping line so they can slide down from one side to the other.
This is what you really want:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaT8NZMy9YM
Cheers,
Matt
Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
Interesting ideas Matt. The related launcher concept shown below (full operational details available courtesy of John Atkins' excellent articles in Airgunner) was actually introduced by Lane Bros. as long ago as 1895, for their airgun spread-shot 'cartridges'. You did need a lackey though to pull the string. A foot operated version would be a much better idea.
I also fancy trying empty coke cans as targets, as they are very light to launch, and you should be able to detect a hit from the clatter made.
I am going to try the pellets out with my 1906 BSA rifle, both because it is in great condition and operating at near optimal power, and because it seems appropriate for the era when these shot pellets were first used. Fortunately the tap recess in the rifle is deep enough to take the pellets.
Registered User
A few years ago someone on here was making and selling .22 shotshells.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jiX...w?usp=drivesdk
Last edited by elanmac; 14-03-2024 at 03:59 PM.
Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
That's very interesting Mac, as well-known member Norman on here generously sent me a selection of airgun shot shells, and among them were the self-same ones you are talking about. I have been testing them alongside my own home-made chalk pellets. I will be posting my observations on here shortly.A few years ago someone on here was making and selling .22 shotshells.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jiX...w?usp=drivesdk
Cheers,
John
Registered User
I wonder how they compared in performance to a modern .22 rim-fire shotshell? I know the cartoon advert above shouldn’t be taken as as ‘to scale’, but it implies that target’s only about 8ft away…
Registered User
Are those green things wax with shot in? I had a thought of using mashed up bog roll to make some shot shells which might have worked but never got round to trying it out.
Registered User
The green sleeves are plastic, they remain in the breech after firing. The air passes through the holes in the base ejecting the shot.
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