Conicals for ML pistols?

[tacfoley]

If a pistol then there would be difficulty either with obturation (if bullet cast under size to allow it to be muzzle loaded) or with loading (if bullet cast to correct size and hence oversize for muzzle loading).

If a revolver then I see no particular reason why this would not work. 230 gn (presume .44 or .45 cal) is a lot heavier than a ball, so some load adjustment might be needed, and of course the twist rate of the barrel might be far too low to stabilise such a projectile - or is it one of these new fangled nitro muzzle loaders (which I presume have a faster twist than a BP gun)? Still it could work.

In BP guns it seems that balls work a lot better than bullets but it is worth an experiment.

EDIT: This post underlapped some other responses. The proposed firearm is a revolver and not a pistol. The Euroarms R&S is a good gun with balls, I see no advantage to using bullets in it but you might be fortunate. Worth a try anyway.

I don't know of any nitro-converted previously C&B revolvers that have had the barrel changed as well as the cylinder. However, I'm here to learn.

I agree with the futility of using a conical in a C&B revolver - as I noted, it's not as though we are able to us them for hunting, as happens in the USA. Shooting a conical in my ROA seems to be a complete waste of powder, cap and lead. Unless, of course, it's a 'man-thing' to shoot something that kicks like a 'real handgun' and has all the accuracy of a garden sprinkler

tac

[Turnup]

I don't know of any nitro-converted previously C&B revolvers that have had the barrel changed as well as the cylinder. However, I'm here to learn.

I agree with the futility of using a conical in a C&B revolver - as I noted, it's not as though we are able to us them for hunting, as happens in the USA. Shooting a conical in my ROA seems to be a complete waste of powder, cap and lead. Unless, of course, it's a 'man-thing' to shoot something that kicks like a 'real handgun' and has all the accuracy of a garden sprinkler

tac

I agree it is doubtful that a nitro conversion would also replace the barrel on grounds of expense, but when I wrote I was thinking particularly of the modern products typified by the inventive Mr Westlake. Some are m/l conversions of S5 handguns and I believe that some are made entirely by Mr Westlake. I have no specific knowledge but it seems to me that either could have a twist rate more suited to bullets. Irrelevant to the thread as it turns out.

Back to the thread - it occurs to me that there might be some difficulty in inserting a bullet using the built in rammer arrangement because there is insufficient clearance with the rammer fully raised. It would still be possible to load the cylinder off the gun and various contrivances are available (or can easily be made) to facilitate this.

WRT "man thing" - a bullet will allow less space for powder. The ROA with ball and a maximal charge of BP (IIRC about 40 gn) produces an impressive bang, a clearly supersonic ball, and prodigious amounts of smoke I guess the 230 gn bullet will give lots of recoil but there will perforce be less powder behind it so perhaps not so testosterone inducing?

[DesG]

I've tried conicals in my old Rogers and Spencer, both flat base pointed ones using the mold which came with it and REAL bullets of 200 and 250gn from my lee molds for my TC Hawken. They certainly pack more of a punch than round ball and are great for destroyng the target frames as you wont get anywhere near the target with them. Same goes for my Pedersoli pistols. They are designed to use round ball and work best in my experience, with round ball.

Nothing to stop you trying it though.

[tacfoley]

I agree it is doubtful that a nitro conversion would also replace the barrel on grounds of expense, but when I wrote I was thinking particularly of the modern products typified by the inventive Mr Westlake. Some are m/l conversions of S5 handguns and I believe that some are made entirely by Mr Westlake. I have no specific knowledge but it seems to me that either could have a twist rate more suited to bullets. Irrelevant to the thread as it turns out.

Back to the thread - it occurs to me that there might be some difficulty in inserting a bullet using the built in rammer arrangement because there is insufficient clearance with the rammer fully raised. It would still be possible to load the cylinder off the gun and various contrivances are available (or can easily be made) to facilitate this.

WRT "man thing" - a bullet will allow less space for powder. The ROA with ball and a maximal charge of BP (IIRC about 40 gn) produces an impressive bang, a clearly supersonic ball, and prodigious amounts of smoke I guess the 230 gn bullet will give lots of recoil but there will perforce be less powder behind it so perhaps not so testosterone inducing?

I didn't know that Mr Westlake made conversions of S5 firearms in .44/.45cal, not ever having seen any. However, his .38cal firearms are certainly designed with modern bullets in mind, as they shoot .38cal wadcutters which are .357" diameter.

I already mentioned the possible lack of clearance when trying to load a conical in a tight frame - not being all that familiar with the R&S, I can't say that this would, in fact, be the case. I only ever shot ball in mine about thirty-five years ago. For sure, taking the cylinder off to load it would obviate any problem there.

tac

[1066]

Just a knock on from what Tac was just saying..I had a good try with conicals, in my Rem1858, around 30 years ago and no matter what I tried, I couldn't get them to compare with a good round ball for accuracy.

However, I still have a hankering to do some experiments with full wadcutters in a M/L revolver or my LePage - maybe a short stubby solid base W/C.
The wadcutters certainly shot well in my K38 and .32 target pistols.

[tacfoley]

Just a knock on from what Tac was just saying..I had a good try with conicals, in my Rem1858, around 30 years ago and no matter what I tried, I couldn't get them to compare with a good round ball for accuracy.

However, I still have a hankering to do some experiments with full wadcutters in a M/L revolver or my LePage - maybe a short stubby solid base W/C.
The wadcutters certainly shot well in my K38 and .32 target pistols.

Custom mould needed for any calibre muzzleloader and wadcutters......

Good luck. Jeff Tanner might be able to help out.

tac