Mechanical advantage of Spring Guns vs Pneumatic pump airguns

[45flint]

https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019...reak-part-2-2/

You do the math.

Basically, with most regular 12ish ft-lbs pumpers, the major pump strokes once you get past the first 3 or 4 are each the rough equivalent work of cocking a fairly powerful springer. Even a typical Beeman R1 takes about 40 ft-lbs.

Fascinating, it’s really the amount of effort it takes at each pump to get a diminishing increase in power. At each pump you have to fight that air volume already in the gun to get even more in? What a stupid system when you think of it. Lol

[cringe]

Fascinating, it’s really the amount of effort it takes at each pump to get a diminishing increase in power. At each pump you have to fight that air volume already in the gun to get even more in? What a stupid system when you think of it. Lol

As I was educated on this forum, don't forget about 'Boyle's Law' cheers Al.

[45flint]

As I was educated on this forum, don't forget about 'Boyle's Law' cheers Al.

https://imgur.com/a/jWkjvPr

[Jerry Cornelius]

You need Cardews “Airguns from trigger to target”. Iirc he does the maths in there.

Every air gunner should have this book, it is British men-in-sheds at its finest.

[springfieldm6]

Wasn’t it Cardew who experimented with a spring gun using nitrogen rather than air, and found the power considerably down due to the lack of dieseling? Another factor regarding energy comparisons.....

[Jerry Cornelius]

Wasn’t it Cardew who experimented with a spring gun using nitrogen rather than air, and found the power considerably down due to the lack of dieseling? Another factor regarding energy comparisons.....

It was indeed.

According to cardew he got an overall efficiency of 5% pumping up a pneumatic

He got 25-35% efficiency from springers. So pneumatics c six times less efficient , about where Geezer and Tom Gaylord had it.

[45flint]

It was indeed.

According to cardew he got an overall efficiency of 5% pumping up a pneumatic

He got 25-35% efficiency from springers. So pneumatics c six times less efficient , about where Geezer and Tom Gaylord had it.

Thanks for the info

[MDriskill]

Apologies in advance for pulling things out of my rusty memory instead of looking them up, but one way to think of it is that a springer uses a small volume of air at high pressure, where an MSP uses a larger volume of air at lower pressure. I vaguely recall reading "somewhere" that the pressure difference is an order of magnitude, like maybe 200 PSI stored in the pump gun's chamber, vs. 2000 PSI generated for an instant in a 12 FPE springer?

I grew up on "pump guns" and as much as I've come to prefer springers in my dotage - the light weight, variable power, fixed barrel, and recoil-free firing cycle of my ancient Benjamin "Tootsie Roll" 347 are still great. When I am asked by a "non airgun" friend to recommend one airgun for plinking or pesting, I most often steer them toward an MSP.

[Geezer]

Apologies in advance for pulling things out of my rusty memory instead of looking them up, but one way to think of it is that a springer uses a small volume of air at high pressure, where an MSP uses a larger volume of air at lower pressure. I vaguely recall reading "somewhere" that the pressure difference is an order of magnitude, like maybe 200 PSI stored in the pump gun's chamber, vs. 2000 PSI generated for an instant in a 12 FPE springer?

I grew up on "pump guns" and as much as I've come to prefer springers in my dotage - the light weight, variable power, fixed barrel, and recoil-free firing cycle of my ancient Benjamin "Tootsie Roll" 347 are still great. When I am asked by a "non airgun" friend to recommend one airgun for plinking or pesting, I most often steer them toward an MSP.

You might find this recent thread interesting.

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php?879722-Pumpers

[45flint]

Apologies in advance for pulling things out of my rusty memory instead of looking them up, but one way to think of it is that a springer uses a small volume of air at high pressure, where an MSP uses a larger volume of air at lower pressure. I vaguely recall reading "somewhere" that the pressure difference is an order of magnitude, like maybe 200 PSI stored in the pump gun's chamber, vs. 2000 PSI generated for an instant in a 12 FPE springer?

I grew up on "pump guns" and as much as I've come to prefer springers in my dotage - the light weight, variable power, fixed barrel, and recoil-free firing cycle of my ancient Benjamin "Tootsie Roll" 347 are still great. When I am asked by a "non airgun" friend to recommend one airgun for plinking or pesting, I most often steer them toward an MSP.

I bought my first and only Airgun 20 years ago a Beeman R1. After retirement 5 years ago I started collecting all kinds of vintage Airguns. The American vintage forums were so enamored by pumpers I have tried my share. I just have fallen in love with prewar springers and am about ready to unload my small pumper collection. They just make no sense to me anymore? I can appreciate the history in the Crosman 101 etc. but but after awhile you start to find the guns that make the most sense to you and those you just love.