Can I go shorter??

[kennyc]

what COAL does your reloading manual say for that bullet? failing that load to the same length as a similar factory round and then play with your powder charge until you are happy with the grouping, you can then mess with the COAL if you wish to see if it tightens the group.
Viht data gives 2.638" for COAL

[phil384]

I thought powder charge affects the velocity and COAL affects the accuracy?

[bullbarrel]

I like that mantra.

As long as the powder is somewhere in the middle of the range given in the books.

You haven't said what you are getting with factory?

If a lot better than something is wrong.

Are you using a lee neck die by any chance? If so you could be having inconsistent neck tension if you aren't giving it that last 10% of welly needed to finish it off. And turning it 90 degrees and doing it again can help.

It could be you jsut have to admit defeat and go get the right powder. I've never had a rifle shoot that bad which leads me to believe its something more than powder/COL.

It is the same manufacturer's brass?

[phil384]

I like that mantra.

As long as the powder is somewhere in the middle of the range given in the books.

You haven't said what you are getting with factory?

If a lot better than something is wrong.

Are you using a lee neck die by any chance? If so you could be having inconsistent neck tension if you aren't giving it that last 10% of welly needed to finish it off. And turning it 90 degrees and doing it again can help.

It could be you jsut have to admit defeat and go get the right powder. I've never had a rifle shoot that bad which leads me to believe its something more than powder/COL.

It is the same manufacturer's brass?

Yep always RWS brass

And the neck turning thing is worth a try.

[kennyc]

I thought powder charge affects the velocity and COAL affects the accuracy?

nope otherwise factory ammo wouldn't hit squat! get your powder charge sorted out and then if you must play with the length to get the minimum group dispersion, too many people spend too much time fretting about the jump to the lands before getting the rifle shooting well.
fine tuning the charge and the length will definitely show you the best from your rifle, but with 3MOA groups you are waaaaay from that at the moment, get the basics sorted out and then look at the detail.

[bullbarrel]

nope otherwise factory ammo wouldn't hit squat! get your powder charge sorted out and then if you must play with the length to get the minimum group dispersion, too many people spend too much time fretting about the jump to the lands before getting the rifle shooting well.

I have to say I've found the complete opposite. COL has made all the difference, powder change just makes the group go in different places (within reason). Sure if you have the wrong COL then powder changes might result in a nice group, but not consistently.

Just my 2p

And if its raining then this and part 2 is worth watching. But skip the bits about concentricity and come back when you have 1/2 moa groups.

[phil384]

I started playing the video and noticed the first one is 2 hours long, defo a rainy day video!

Anyone want to buy some N150 powder. It's OK for .308

[bullbarrel]

You've still not said the group size with factory??

[phil384]

You've still not said the group size with factory??

Sorry, PPU is rubbish, again about 3" groups. RWS just over an inch.

[kennyc]

I started playing the video and noticed the first one is 2 hours long, defo a rainy day video!

Anyone want to buy some N150 powder. It's OK for .308

Viht list N150 for the .243 so its unlikely to be a powder problem as long as you are using their data.

[kennyc]

I have to say I've found the complete opposite. COL has made all the difference, powder change just makes the group go in different places (within reason). Sure if you have the wrong COL then powder changes might result in a nice group, but not consistently.

Just my 2p

And if its raining then this and part 2 is worth watching. But skip the bits about concentricity and come back when you have 1/2 moa groups.

my main point Andy was he was trying to run before he walked with measuring the COAL and trying to load with a short jump, if he starts at the book length and works up an accurate charge he can fine tune the accuracy by adjusting the length.
Factory ammo isn't loaded to a suitable length for a given rifle, it is loaded to an average length, yet many people happily shoot factory ammo accurately for the whole of their career,
most people are trying to get the maximum speed out of their ammo so are unlikely to settle for a middle of the road load, so why not start by working out the powder charge that gives you the best velocity and then work out the fine detail of the COAL once you have that ?

[Parabuteo]

what COAL does your reloading manual say for that bullet? failing that load to the same length as a similar factory round and then play with your powder charge until you are happy with the grouping, you can then mess with the COAL if you wish to see if it tightens the group.
Viht data gives 2.638" for COAL

Exactly what Kenneth says.

SAMMI specs etc are arrived at for a reason and its a good starting point.

After spending ages messing about to get my old M67 to group with the rounds just off the landes I realized that it was an old rifle and would as likely prefer not to be overly stressed so I wondered how I could change things for the better.

Many years ago Russel Simmonds told me that often a long jump could be just as good as seating into the landes, but people just dont try it....unless they use factory ammo. Recently I developed a load that I am happy with that bunged all 5 rounds under a small orange NRA marker at 200, so its within 1MOA and fine for an oldie.

I loaded back to the standard mag length for .308 and used the manufacturers data for the powder involved (RS52) and happy days, the only thing I did differently was to factory crimp the neck with a lee factory crimp die.

I first found this to improve the accuracy with my 5.56 Ammo, so I tried it with my .303....same result. Seems to work well with .308 as well so worth considering for rifles where you are stuck with magazines. These dies cost peanuts for what they actually achieve.

Lee claim it helps "Iron out" neck tension issues and allows a more uniform pressure spike. Talking to someone who knows much more about internal ballistics than me (Bradders of Bradley arms) he pointed out that a lot of theory is belted about but most of us dont know "Exactly" what is going on in there regarding compressed loads, ambient temp etc, so sensible testing si the way forward.

Certainly for the type of shooting I do now I will not be worrying about neck turning, bullet pointing, bullet weighing etc, and COALs stay pretty well as advertised or as copied from service ammo.

I only really mess with the powder these days, life is too short when shooting multi positional to burn barrels out testing when one gust of wind can have you pointing at the next target.

That said a little 18" AR15 can produce surprising results if you shoot it right.