and they all shout "why buy a gun from europe"

[RobF]

I suggest you go away and study how different industries are affected by VAT registration. To make it simple I will explain why you are barking up the wrong tree. I was VAT registered until 2013. On the SCHEME that was applied to my company by HMRC we had to pay the VAT on goods bought and then pay HMRC the difference between what we collected and the amount we had paid. I clearly remember filling in the online forms which did all the calculations for you. If I have made an error in the way VAT is sorted on EU purchases made by you then how can I possibly know your business.

Yes... that's exactly how it works. There's no SCHEME in conspiracy terms.

I buy product X at £1000 + VAT = £1200

I sell product X at £2000 + VAT = £2400

I have charged £400 VAT and I have paid £ 200 VAT. I give the HMRC £200 (£400 for the VAT collected minus the £200 I paid).



In the EU, to save complex to and from between different Tax offices in different countries, if you have a VAT number the foriegn company does not charge you VAT. In the small chance that there is an error and they do, you reclaim it back like you would do normally, as per above.

If I change the example...


I buy product X at £1000 + VAT = £1200

I sell product X at £500 + VAT = £600

I have charged £400 VAT and I have paid £ 200 VAT. The HMRC gives me £100 (£100 for the VAT collected minus the £200 I paid).


If you are not VAT registered, you pay VAT from the EU countries at their rate like you would do here.



There is nothing personal in this, you do not understand how VAT works. Which is quite surprising for someone who is VAT registered. But it is no different for any business. The rules apply to all. Both ways. We do the opposite when we deal with our EU clients.

[zanes]

There is nothing personal in this, you do not understand how VAT works. Which is quite surprising for someone who is VAT registered. But it is no different for any business. The rules apply to all. Both ways. We do the opposite when we deal with our EU clients.

I refer t'other Rob to my earlier advice

No, the UK retailer should either not pay VAT to the [foreign, which I missed originally] manufacturer OR if they are paying VAT (some businesses do insist on that even for VAT reg business to VAT reg business sales...) then the UK retailer should be reclaiming the VAT. That really is fundamental tax/business legislation and if an RFD isn't understanding/using that then they need to get a (better) accountant in first thing tomorrow morning to sort things out.

[RobF]

I refer t'other Rob to my earlier advice

Yes quite.

Seems if we'd roll back to 2013 there would be 2 potential clients out there for my other half, who is an accountant.

[zanes]

Yes quite.

Seems if we'd roll back to 2013 there would be 2 potential clients out there for my other half, who is an accountant.

Out of interest, what's the situation with UK VAT reg business to UK VAT reg business sales?

I'd got it in my head that in that situation VAT wouldn't be paid "between businesses" but now I'm really not sure. It'd make sense for it to be paid only at "point of sale to consumer" but I suspect there'd be a lot of fiddling in that case.

As an engineer we just let sales deal with that sort of stuff

[Rob Edge]

To all that suggest I am wrong. Do a search on google or HMRC to get an explanation of the various schemes applied. I can't be arsed with this anymore because as usual, the gang is right no matter what explanation is offered. Narrow minded is an understatement.

[rogb]

To all that suggest I am wrong. Do a search on google or HMRC to get an explanation of the various schemes applied. I can't be arsed with this anymore because as usual, the gang is right no matter what explanation is offered. Narrow minded is an understatement.

Before you flounce off, can you comment about a real life gun purchase?
I bought my gun from Germany, I paid about £1300 (can't remember exactly) including German VAT at 19%.
I am not VAT registered, I must pay it.

The same gun is at Edinkillie (who are pretty poor at comms ) at £1951 including UK VAT at 20%

How is the VAT making the net price difference (bar the 1%)?

If you think I am not going to enjoy a £600 saving plus get great service from Germany, then you are mistaken

Of course I would NOT recommend this for anybody who is not willing to supply and fit parts themselves as needed, invalidating any warranty. I have just done a service on mine after 1 year of use with parts from another German supplier ( both names of German dealers withheld due to the forum owner's wishes). It is the best gun I have ever owned

[RobF]

To all that suggest I am wrong. Do a search on google or HMRC to get an explanation of the various schemes applied. I can't be arsed with this anymore because as usual, the gang is right no matter what explanation is offered. Narrow minded is an understatement.

No, you're wrong. I have been running a VAT business trading internationally for the past 20 years. My other half is also an accountant.

https://www.gov.uk/vat-imports-acqui...es-from-abroad

If you’re registered for VAT in the UK and receive goods from other countries in the EU you’ll normally pay VAT at the time the goods come into the UK. You’ll need to pay VAT at the same rate that you would have paid if you had acquired them from a UK supplier. This VAT is known as acquisition tax and you can normally reclaim this if the acquisitions relate to VAT taxable supplies that you make.

Perhaps you would like to link directly to the scheme that corroborates your opinion that you cannot claim VAT back or that EU sellers dont charge VAT? (obviously the paradox of sellers abroad not charging vat and us not being able to claim this non existent vat back aside )

[Rob Edge]

No, you're wrong. I have been running a VAT business trading internationally for the past 20 years. My other half is also an accountant.

https://www.gov.uk/vat-imports-acqui...es-from-abroad


Perhaps you would like to link directly to the scheme that corroborates your opinion that you cannot claim VAT back or that EU sellers dont charge VAT? (obviously the paradox of sellers abroad not charging vat and us not being able to claim this non existent vat back aside )

A good start for your reading. Be prepared for being made to look silly. Each of these schemes can be tailored by HMRC for a different type of business. https://www.mybusinessworks.co.uk/as...planations.pdf
As an aside could you please enlighten me as to when I stated you cannot claim VAT back. I have gone through all of the posts and can't find it anywhere.