would a new recoilless springer sell?

[RustyBuzz]

Phil, my comments a couple of posts above for a start mate... and the trouble is if things that obvious have gotten through, then you start to worry about any less obvious flaws.

Rather like buying a car with poor body panel fit... has no direct effect on the engine and gearbox, for example, but if they can't even be arsed to bolt it together properly, you question how much effort has gone into those things that you can't see ?

Exactly this.

It looks like a collection of random parts cobbled together with meccano and some hairy string.

The loading sequence and that port are a total joke.

And what about the B&Q 'thing' supporting the barrel under the fore end.

The joke back in the day was that the 'HR' in HR81 stood for 'Heath Robinson', well this should be the AR18 because it's the biggest pile of 'Anne Robinson' I've seen in a while.

In all honesty I applaud the ambition, but for jeebers sake, if you're going to do it, do it right.

[Hsing-ee]

Exactly this.

It looks like a collection of random parts cobbled together with meccano and some hairy string.

The loading sequence and that port are a total joke.

And what about the B&Q 'thing' supporting the barrel under the fore end.

The joke back in the day was that the 'HR' in HR81 stood for 'Heath Robinson', well this should be the AR18 because it's the biggest pile of 'Anne Robinson' I've seen in a while.

In all honesty I applaud the ambition, but for jeebers sake, if you're going to do it, do it right.

It's a hideous nightmare of a contraption, it's like they went out of their way to ignore the failings of the HR81 - inefficient piggy-back design, needlessly complex, over-engineered and yet dangerous at the same time, and ugly as sin. Then add a spectacularly awkward loading port and routine, plus GAS RAMS, a non-floating barrel and it is something that should be used on design courses as a warning to students. If you compare it to the ProSport, it is a total failing, and you could buy three ProSports for the same price, and I bet it will not match the PS's performance. You could buy an amazing PCP for the same price. Keep It Simple, Stupid!

Fair enough, make a recoilless springer, but this is not the way forward. The Air Arms SR mechanism worked well but could have been improved on for maintenance and that would have done the job and would have resulted in an affordable rifle. I think they will sell about six of them, all to collectors.

[nurek]

Phil, my comments a couple of posts above for a start mate... and the trouble is if things that obvious have gotten through, then you start to worry about any less obvious flaws.

Rather like buying a car with poor body panel fit... has no direct effect on the engine and gearbox, for example, but if they can't even be arsed to bolt it together properly, you question how much effort has gone into those things that you can't see ?

Jon is spot on.

They should have looked at John Whiscombe's gun and learned from other successful designs...

A nice idea, but poorly designed and not thought through.

I thought this was meant to be released for sale next month too?

[look no hands]

In my eyes they seem to be barking up the wrong tree, they should have looked at the market and scoured the shooting forums (especially this one) and realised that there are NO decent British made break barrel springers (even I have to admit the newer BSA break barrels are crap), they should have started off pleasing the masses and given them a quality B/B which would have been their bread and butter gun and then looked into bringing out the recoilless incarnation they have now and a top quality underlever to challenge the other ones.

This rifle reminds me of the Imperial Double Express which was out in the mid 1980's, that was also way over the top expensive £500-600 if my memory serves me right and that died on it's arse but at least that had a bit of a chance as PCP's were still in their infancy, PCP's are now well established and are not like the early agricultural things that were produced like the Titans and early Falcons (same company I know), so I don't think it's going to have much chance in today's climate.

And like what Alistair says, why use gas rams, will you need to buy a pump at even more expense if they leak or will it be a send back to the factory job?

Pete

[Shed tuner]

Just a thought.. the use of gas rams may be more to do with getting up the piston speed in two relatively short strokes.

[look no hands]

Just a thought.. the use of gas rams may be more to do with getting up the piston speed in two relatively short strokes.

Are they linked together in any way as what would happen if one of them leaked? would it upset the running of the internals or even damage them?

Pete

[Geezer]

Reminds me of the 1943-44 A38 Valiant tank. One was made. It was so bad in so many respects (including trying to maim its crews) that the sole prototype was kept in the Armoured Vehicle Research Establishment or similar as an example of how not to design and build a tank. It's now in the Tank Museum.

I do hope the new Sterling proves better than that.

I see that Solware have the T16 twin-piston available for pre-order (or what I call "order") at £1200, and the PCP for £850. Oh, and some kind of FAC-rated "survivalist" PCP airgun that shoots harpoons or something. Good luck getting a slot on your Section 1 ticket for that.

[Phil Russell]

Are they linked together in any way as what would happen if one of them leaked? would it upset the running of the internals or even damage them?

Pete

Now I admit that this is a concern of mine. Generally speaking a spring rifle is far more 'user serviceable' than a gas ram, especially when it comes to two independent rams that presumably need to be in balance. The Orig 66, FWB300, TX200SR, ASI Statical all use just one spring (OK, the 66 uses two but in effect it is a single unit). If £1200 is correct I am rather going off the idea and agree with a previous poster about a new quality break barrel or underlever.
Cheers, Phil

[look no hands]

Now I admit that this is a concern of mine. Generally speaking a spring rifle is far more 'user serviceable' than a gas ram, especially when it comes to two independent rams that presumably need to be in balance. The Orig 66, FWB300, TX200SR, ASI Statical all use just one spring (OK, the 66 uses two but in effect it is a single unit). If £1200 is correct I am rather going off the idea and agree with a previous poster about a new quality break barrel or underlever.
Cheers, Phil

I think more people are likely to shell out for a quality break barrel or underlever around the £500 mark than £1200 for a recoilless twin piston rifle with a limited market, surely it's better they get established first and feather their nests with a decent selling "bread and butter" gun, like one of the videos said they are sourcing their barrels and stocks from Britain (more than what AA do) and what could be better than a 100% British sourced and made gun for the British shooting market, they even have a pretty decent name with lots of history, almost up their with the likes of BSA and Webley, except they are now foreign owned

They could add another string to their bow and even bring out their rifle range with either a spring or gas ram inside (like what Theoben should have done), that'll keep the punters happy and if it had a decent trigger as well, then they could show Impact how it's done.

Pete

[TonyL]

Fully agree.

So, rather than taking somewhat of a gamble in producing a "showcase" rifle that could be fundamentally flawed and over-complicated, they could have taken the seemingly unadventurous route of a 25mm cylinder break barrel, running on synthetic bearings with accurately machines components and guides. There are plenty of excellent existing rifles in this sector that they could study, taking the best design features of each and tweak and improve......so, as said, 25mm bore, synthetic bearings (like the TX and LGV), a further refinement of the Rekord / CD trigger (maybe along the lines of the handmade Venom Mach triggers), manual barrel latch as per LGV, short transfer port like an '80 (maybe tricky with the manual latch?), quality barrel and stocks.

All proven technology, but beautifully put together. My view is that the market, especially the springer market, is conservative and suspicious of too much innovation, but a beautifully crafted refined interpretation of current springer thinking would sell. It might be expensive, but with all the proven elements in there, buyers wouldn't see it as being risky.

Get the money coming in and then gradually introduce more daring technology.

And there would have to be a longer stroke, higher power version for the US and other non-restricted markets.

[Hsing-ee]

The survival gun and the recoilless springer etc look rubbish but I DO like the look of the modern-manufactured Webley Service Mk II. It's pointless but beautiful. I wonder what standard they are made to?

[Geezer]

Are they linked together in any way as what would happen if one of them leaked? would it upset the running of the internals or even damage them?

Pete

Now I admit that this is a concern of mine. Generally speaking a spring rifle is far more 'user serviceable' than a gas ram, especially when it comes to two independent rams that presumably need to be in balance. The Orig 66, FWB300, TX200SR, ASI Statical all use just one spring (OK, the 66 uses two but in effect it is a single unit). If £1200 is correct I am rather going off the idea and agree with a previous poster about a new quality break barrel or underlever.
Cheers, Phil

I am so colossally thick I had forgotten it was a gas-ram.

Yes, that's, er, interesting. Unlike metal springs that tend to degrade over time and still retain some energy even if one breaks, all it takes is a dodgy seal on one ram and one piston is moving at full speed, and the other at near-nothing. Surely that thing has a mechanical connection between the pistons to prevent it smashing itself to pieces?

And, yeah, there's obviously a bigger market for Sterling's oddballs than a quality conventional springer. Obviously. [insert rolling eyes smiley]

[cooper_dan]

The two pistons are mechanically linked (cable). There is something new going on with the piston design because they are trying to patent it. There might only be one gas ram if they are linked. Hard to say without seeing inside

[les allam]

The two pistons are mechanically linked (cable). There is something new going on with the piston design because they are trying to patent it. There might only be one gas ram if they are linked. Hard to say without seeing inside

I think the one gas ram ,powers both the Pistons .
Les..

[Hsing-ee]

It makes a bloody loud bang/ting, like something breaking, even with the silencer.

Should've made a 13/16ths reversible sidelever version of the ProSport, with a steel cocking lever and a 22mm piston. Fitted with a nice BSA barrel. That would not have any recoil with the right pellet and spring combo, no need for recoilless.