Are springers stuck in the 80s?

[BTDT]

I did wonder about this but I've found neodymium magnets 20mm dia and 20mm long which have a 15kg 'pull' if you had two of these with the same poles facing each other in a suitable size tube wouldn't that equate to a 30kg 'push' ?
Not sure if that would work but I have a couple of tiny ones here ( 4mm dia x 8mm long ), no idea of the 'pull' but it hurts if you get your fingers between them when they attract and if I try to push the same poles together it's virtually impossibly without them pinging across the room

I might have to rig up some sort of test rig first before I spend too much time cannibalising that old rifle.

Besides the lure of BBS cheese biscuits beckons.

Norm

If you tried to push the two magnets together, Norm, you would probably fail. Try placing them 85% of a springer compression stroke apart (approximate start pressure for 7.87 gn pellets) and see how much force it takes to push them towards each other - not a lot, and way less than the retarding force that 150psi would place on the piston. The pellet would stay nice and safe in the breech.

Forget the BBS cheese biscuits, BTW. That was a cruel deception by Rickenbacker, who knows full well that cheese biscuits only ever leave the Mod's lounge safely inside the stomachs of mods and admins.

[ballisticboy]

Who needs a piston? Fashion a suitably screened barrel with magnets or even electro magnets controlled by a trigger switch in order to fire suitably (ecofriendly) magnetic pellets. Sure, a few technical issues to deal with such as preventing the barrel attracting magnetic objects when firing; but maybe the magnetic pulse of the barrel firing the steel pellet would be so fast as to make this of no consequence.
Now ... what is the tel. no. of the patent office? Whoops, forgot that I can't do that as I have already made the idea public.
Cheers, Phil

You might find your pellet comes out as a molten lump of steel due to the eddy currents generated in the projectile. You also need a hefty power supply as EM guns are not very efficient and not really worth it below about Mach 6 when conventional guns become very inefficient.

[eyebull]

You might find your pellet comes out as a molten lump of steel due to the eddy currents generated in the projectile...

This...doesn't sound like a problem

[Mr.Fixit-Norm]

If you tried to push the two magnets together, Norm, you would probably fail. Try placing them 85% of a springer compression stroke apart (approximate start pressure for 7.87 gn pellets) and see how much force it takes to push them towards each other - not a lot, and way less than the retarding force that 150psi would place on the piston. The pellet would stay nice and safe in the breech.

Forget the BBS cheese biscuits, BTW. That was a cruel deception by Rickenbacker, who knows full well that cheese biscuits only ever leave the Mod's lounge safely inside the stomachs of mods and admins.

Hmmm, I wonder if this means that the cylinder that the magnets are in needs to be short and fat i.e. A short stroke piston to take advantage of the magnets short sharp initial power push.

The other problem I can see with using powerful magnets would be cocking the gun ! Bringing the same poles of two 15kg pull magnets together may be outside of what is considered normal cocking force.

Looks like I'll have to fund my own cheesy biscuits

[BTDT]

Hmmm, I wonder if this means that the cylinder that the magnets are in needs to be short and fat i.e. A short stroke piston to take advantage of the magnets short sharp initial power push.

The other problem I can see with using powerful magnets would be cocking the gun ! Bringing the same poles of two 15kg pull magnets together may be outside of what is considered normal cocking force.

Looks like I'll have to fund my own cheesy biscuits

Norm: The force acting on the piston at the start of the stroke would be under a third that of a typical mainspring, and would rapidly fall off in the first few millimetres of piston travel.

If the project gun you have lined up for this experiment is a real nail, your best bet would be to scratch 'BSF 55 Serial No. 001' on the stock using a nail, then flog it to I.J. and use the proceeds to buy your own cheesy biscuit factory.

[Rickenbacker]

With magnets being 5-10% more powerful when attracting rather than repelling - I imagine some kind of a design with the piston head being a magnet with an o ring groove machined into it, and the plug at the business end of the cylinder being another magnet with a TP drilled through it.

Perhaps a hybrid system would be more achievable? Using a conventional coil or gas spring - with the magnets giving a bit of extra power at the end of the stroke, and more importantly, acting as an anti-bounce system?

Yes, I'm sure that would work. And breaking the magnets apart would be done with a quick "slap" on top of the barrel. So a stiffly sprung chisel point barrel detent would be required - like on a Theoben rammer.

I believe Norm could be in for a Nobel Cheese Prize for this - if it works out.

(although he might have to wait until infinitely more powerful magnets are developed)

[Hsing-ee]

The attraction of the spring-powered airgun, compared with other types of projectile-hurling implements, is its simplicity. Gas-rams, electric cocking mechanisms, magnetic accelerators etc defile and contaminate the essence of the springer WHICH IS ITS METAL SPRING.

Stop trying to fix something that isn't broken. A bicycle with a electric motor isn't a bicycle any more, its a crap moped. A hang-glider with an engine is a shite version of a proper plane. Playing conkers with hand-grenades is something you will only do once...

[Rickenbacker]

If I may quote the late great Whitney Houston:

I believe that magnets are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside.

[Blackrider]

If I may quote the late great Whitney Houston:

Thought that was Crosby, Stills and Nash Phil ?

[TonyL]

The attraction of the spring-powered airgun, compared with other types of projectile-hurling implements, is its simplicity. Gas-rams, electric cocking mechanisms, magnetic accelerators etc defile and contaminate the essence of the springer WHICH IS ITS METAL SPRING.

Stop trying to fix something that isn't broken. A bicycle with a electric motor isn't a bicycle any more, its a crap moped. A hang-glider with an engine is a shite version of a proper plane. Playing conkers with hand-grenades is something you will only do once...

Yep, fully agree. And it'd no longer be a Boinger, so where's the fun in that?

Even some road signs wear springs these days!

[Blackrider]

With magnets being 5-10% more powerful when attracting rather than repelling - I imagine some kind of a design with the piston head being a magnet with an o ring groove machined into it, and the plug at the business end of the cylinder being another magnet with a TP drilled through it.

Perhaps a hybrid system would be more achievable? Using a conventional coil or gas spring - with the magnets giving a bit of extra power at the end of the stroke, and more importantly, acting as an anti-bounce system?

Yes, I'm sure that would work. And breaking the magnets apart would be done with a quick "slap" on top of the barrel. So a stiffly sprung chisel point barrel detent would be required - like on a Theoben rammer.

I believe Norm could be in for a Nobel Cheese Prize for this - if it works out.

(although he might have to wait until infinitely more powerful magnets are developed)

Is that a " Rail Gun" Phil ? Not sure which Section that would be on Ticket ?

[Mole trapper]

My head hurts!

[Rickenbacker]

Thought that was Crosby, Stills and Nash Phil ?

I don't think so, John? Did they also record a song about magnets?

[Geezer]

Is that a " Rail Gun" Phil ? Not sure which Section that would be on Ticket ?

A sub-12 rail gun would make all airguns obsolete. But if you put bigger batteries in, or plugged into the mains? Ok, my head hurts too. A great example of where the authorities might for once anticipate emerging technology rather than watch it happen and then retrospectively legislate.

The other big breakthrough is nano-tech pellets slaved to a scope/sensor that's GPS/thermal/radar/all locates the target, assesses the meteorology, and adjusts their flight accordingly - or even homes in on the thermal and/or radar signature of the target even if it moves. And an AI that chooses the moment to shoot for you, and does that.

This is nearing possibility for artillery shells, and rifle bullets will follow. (Bear in mind your smartphone has much, much, more computing power than the Apollo moon missions, and that at 1990 computer processing costs, an IPhone would now cost $1million dollars.) They would cost a lot, but never miss. Which would take all the fun out of it, while being loved by professional pest control guys.

The technology logic is clear. The stuff that needs human skill will become a niche. A nice one. Like archery.

This thread has got weird, but not bad, I hope.

[Mr.Fixit-Norm]

The attraction of the spring-powered airgun, compared with other types of projectile-hurling implements, is its simplicity. Gas-rams, electric cocking mechanisms, magnetic accelerators etc defile and contaminate the essence of the springer WHICH IS ITS METAL SPRING.

Stop trying to fix something that isn't broken. A bicycle with a electric motor isn't a bicycle any more, its a crap moped. A hang-glider with an engine is a shite version of a proper plane. Playing conkers with hand-grenades is something you will only do once...

Sorry, of course you're right I just got a bit carried away ( the promise of cheesy biccys didn't help )
I shall desist from any more contamination of this SPRINGER thread and if I get anywhere with an alternative self contained magnetic powered Airgun I'll start a new thread - keep a look out for a MagRam thread :

Norm